CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Me, here — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:13:42 GMT

This is a tough subject. We want to protect the country, but we also want our actions to reflect our values. The latter holds more sway for me. Some might ask, "so you would let everybody be in harm's way for the sake of your values?" My answer is that if we stopped policing the world and imposing ourselves on it, it's highly unlikely that we'd be in this situation.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

sue, macungie. pa — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:16:39 GMT

CIA OBVIOUSLY USES THE SAME TACTICS AS AL-QAIDA. MAYBE THEY LEARNED THEM FROM THE CIA.
TORTURE IS UNACCEPTBLE. STOP EXCUSES. DO NOT THINK THE PEOPLE WE TORTURE ARE NOT GOING TO RETURN THE "GET INFORMATION FROM ANYONE WE SURMISE IS DOING WHAT WE ALSO DO".....EXCUSES.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Ty S, Las Vegas, Nevada — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:22:32 GMT

To torture or not? Is this the thorny question alone? Although I agree that from a national security perspective it may be necessary to give the latitude sought by Hayden and agree that our "secret warriors" may need to be far freer to act than would our Army, it still overlooks the dire need for clear guidelines, proper oversight and true accountability at all levels. As a democracy, we must have this debate and settle it, what moral limits do we impose on ourself even at the cost of American lives and our security? This seems still missing in the issue. In the heat of battle or crisis, as Hayden pointed out, waterboarding appeared appropriate because it would get results. However, what price did we pay ultimately? How did the intelligence gained outweigh the fact that America violated a moral threshold we may have been viewed as above. Those are real issues that none seem wanting to tackle because they are quite messy. What muddies these waters is the fact that CIA destroyed evidence and the chain of responsibility is only now being revealed. Hardly the basis to give unfettered latitude to CIA to behave without clear policy guidelines and oversight. If CIA was authorized to use waterboarding then fine, who authorized it and why, and that person or persons must now respond. In hindsight it may be a great or an awful decision, but it will be best judged in the light of day and once weighed upon will guide the future. I don't know when "torture" is appropriate for America to employ but it should not be left to the shadows, for if so, then we quickly lose the moral authority that must be our fiercest weapon in the war on terror.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

blacksheep in Arkansas — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:36:50 GMT

Have we come to the point that we actually think that just because we only employ professional torture experts at the CIA that torture is acceptiable? This is the type of talk that I would imagine Germany and Japan used to their citizens to justify their acts of torture! It would seem that this administration has no moral compass to guide it in its actions!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

CB Run, Your mom's house, So Cal. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:40:58 GMT

Torture works. Period. Semper FI ! ! !

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bill Bailey, Walla Walla, WA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:45:42 GMT

Whether or not you call waterboarding torture, it's practiced only by the most evil beings, not by Christians, or any reasonable people.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Ryan Veer, Bozeman, Montana — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:46:54 GMT

Why would anyone be against interagation methods? Does anyone really believe that if they were in the hands of the terrorists, and they wanted to get information, that they would hold to the Geneva Convention? Get real. Why should we give terrorists rights that they would never uphold if the situation was reversed. Do you call sawing off the heads of reporters a humane act that is allowed? How about showing the video of the act on the internet? Keep up the good work CIA, waterboard away.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Sezi Demirkilic, Greenville, South carolina — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:47:12 GMT

This is not a surprise. It was always clear that these sorts of torture methods were being used by the US. What this reveals is that the American people have been mislead again by this Administration. Throughout the past 7 years we've been told whatever the Bush Administration deemed to be necessary for the public to hear. The US has always been held at a much higher standard than the rest of the world. Through these torture methods, we have shown the world that we should not be held at a higher standard. We don't tell out people the truth and our Administration does things that are shameful.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

onward christian soldiers - USA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:52:19 GMT

all fine & good. Jack Bauer saves the day.
however, we must remember, that other countries will do the same to our citizens - we shouldn't complain

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

SHERRILL ARMAND,PORT ALLEN ,LOUISIANA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:00:39 GMT

I'AM A VIETNAM VET(67-69).IF WATERBOARDING GETS THE RESULTS THAT THE CIA NEEDS SO BE IT.WAR IS NOT A GAME SO YOU DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES.IF YOU IN THE WAY TO BAD.THAT'S WHAT WRONG WITH THE UNITED STATES WE TRY TO PLEASE EVERYONE,AND WE THE ONES THAT GET SCREWED.I LOVE THIS COUNTRY WITH ALL MY HEART AND WOULD GIVE MY LIFE TO PROTECT IT.SO PLEASE DO WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND FORGET ALL THE LIBERALS IN THE WORLD.THANKS.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Mark Golembiowski, Chicago, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:00:43 GMT

Interesting timing about this revelation; what would have the repercussions if the public knew about this in 2004, 2006, or before the primaries and debates began?? After all, the President has been claiming for 5 years that we don't engage in torture.

As for any limitations to the Army field manual. If I understand this correctly, the CIA should be excused because they are trained to do torture better?? Or is it because the ends always justify the means??

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Joeseph, Palo Alto,Ca. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:01:59 GMT

If his lips are moving he is lying. Are they ever going to catch Osama Bin Laden??? If Texas had been attacked on 9-11 Bin Laden would have been killed by now

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

D, Austin, TX — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:03:45 GMT

Well I think it's a shame we have stricter penalties for abuse to animals then we do for human beings.

It sounds to me like we are yet again overanalyzing something without action.

I feel that we keep giving the enemy the upperhand. While we are arguing about what we should and shouldn't do they are plotting more and more evil.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Steve, Chicago, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:04:11 GMT

I have no pity on terrorists. If these are the methods needed to obtain information to keep our people safe then I guess that is what needs to be done. If you don't associate with sick people then I you'll never have anything to worry about.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Thozmaniac — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:06:02 GMT

Maybe we should let all the terror suspects and enemy combatants go and give them their own reality TV shows.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

P. Kane, Bethesda, MD — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:06:25 GMT

Let's face it. All bets are off - we are at war with an enemy that doesn't care about fairness. Show me a "manual for interrogation" which will deter the next 911 type attack. The USA needs to let the intelligence community do, in private, all that's necessary to "be in the game".

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

John Doe, Seattle, WA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:08:44 GMT

An interrogation to the al-Qaida is just the same as the death penalty. You scale it up with certain individuals based on their situation. Since their not just spitting in our face why should we just be shaking our finger at them…America is the best location to be punished, you receive complimentary care for the worst offense while the working party struggles to pay for it and lives in misery.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Ray C., Fullerton, CA. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:10:37 GMT

Are people genuinely concerned with what we did to these terrorists in order to extract info.???
Are they afraid that these tactics would also be used on them?? Are the concerned terrorists?? We as Americans have a duty, to America!! To protect against terrorists and the people who help them. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!! Waterboarding is not pretty, but neither was the videos of all the victims being beheaded. If waterboarding is the worst we do, they should consider themselves lucky.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Vickie Connell Blaine Mn — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:11:39 GMT

this is America, poeple....do not put us down as a terrorist country. BUSH, CHENEY torture , Americans do not. they are war criminals

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

filiberto@ledezma.org — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:14:28 GMT

let me share this tale

once upon a time
A gang of elefants pass across the corn field, the corn fiel was a mess.
the lion king asked to the bear police to find the elefants to get punished
after a while the bear police was unable to catch the elefants, all the animals where asking to the lion king for justice.
the lion king asked to the bear plice to find the elefants quikly.
The bear police got a rabitt and the interrogation begin
Police Bear.- are you the elefant?
The Rabitt answer, no I am a rabitt
Police bear said, apply waterbording to him
for a second time the police bear ask
Are you the elefant
The rabitt, said no I am a rabit
Waterbording said the police bear
Again the rabitt head was into the water
After four times of the same treatment
the police bear asked to the rabitt
Are you the elefant?
The rabitt said no I am a rabitt
Waterbording said the police bear
the wise rabitt said hold, hold hold
I am the elefant, I pass over the field, I kill the president JFK, and I was the pilot of the planes in Ney York in 911, did I forget something?

!please dont give to me more water!

Fili Ledezma
Provo UT

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Jesse — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:14:47 GMT

This administration makes me sick and sad to be an American.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

LCS, Washington, DC — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:15:01 GMT

I am so ashamed that this was done in my name - I used to be proud to be an American. And yes, I have 30+ years of military and federal service.
Mr. Bush has bankrupt America, financially and morally.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Retired Navy, Volcano, Ca — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:26:29 GMT

What is the issue here. This is a very effective means to gain information. Much nicer alternative to what our enemy will do to us.

Water boarding was a common training technique used by the military. I was water boarded in 1970 during SERE trainig prior to going to Okinawa and flying mission off of Viet Nam.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Jack, OFallon, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:26:37 GMT

That's it? Three guys got waterboarded? Well, there you go. The CIA run amuck... What is the world coming to?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

New Canaan Independent, New Canaan CT — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:31:53 GMT

The three terrorists the CIA acknowledges waterboarding are still alive.....What do you think Daniel Pearl would say about artificially holding America to a higher standard of behavior than one that scares the truth out of but keeps its enemies alive?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

tomcking@hotmail.com — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:34:52 GMT

if it saves one soldier,one american ,british,israeli,french
citizen...by all means have at it.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Tracie, Lexington, KY — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:44:41 GMT

Why is everyone so concered with what Congress says. You can not tell me that the CIA and others have not used torture methods in the past. Do people really think terrorists will come out and tell them whats going to happen next? That will never happen. Life is not a tea party. So those men and women need other ways of getting that information. Torture is a nasty business but sometimes its the only way. Could I torture someone? If thousands of lives were on the line, yes, I could. If the American people are honest with themselves, the majority would agree. We are not dealing with normal people. How can normal methods of questioning work? Do the lives of innocent people not mean anything to the government anymore?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

pete, Redmond, WA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:46:08 GMT

Get real America. They murdered 3000 of us and we tortured three of them and probably prevented them from killing a few thousands more. Looks like they got a great deal. Where is the outrage about what they did?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Julene, Chicago, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:46:16 GMT

Can someone ask them when these three guys were captured? Because there's a big difference in 5 years ago and 7 years ago around the time of 9/11. Were they tortured in 2003? Why? What imminent danger of attacks when we weren't sure how Al Queda worked? We had already gone to war in Iraq, yet are admitting we didn't know at the time how our enemy worked? Follow up. Follow up. Follow up, PLEASE.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

G.Hebling Foley Al.realtorone@gulftel.com — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:47:25 GMT

I think we should use what ever methods are NECESSARY.PERIOD
20 years Active Air Force 57-77
Air Guard 55-57
Defense Logistics Agency 80-96(Retired GM-13)

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

RadDad, Kailua Hawaii — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:53:52 GMT

Judging by repsonses from those on the Kumbaya side of interogation techniques. We should sit in a lawnchair and flick popcorn at them in hopes of obtaining vital information to keep your family safe.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

kristy_sanborn@hotmail.colm — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:02:16 GMT

Personally I do believe the CIA and our National Intelligence should be able to use ANY technique that they can to get what they need out of these terrorists. I think if most of the families were asked that who lost loved ones in 9/11, they may just may feel the same way.
They have a job to do, and that is to protect America and the world, how can they do that effeciently if they aren't allowed the means to do it?
Kristy Sanborn, Buckhorn, Mo.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Richard, Newport — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:14:51 GMT

any reason we should believe the numbers? generously they have notr counted those they put in other countries jails and where they just look on whats done there. With the public image of America down the drain anyway I guess it does not make much difference, I wonder why the Americans wonder why no one likes them in the Middle East...

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Right, Redmond, WA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:15:31 GMT

Where is the scrutiny of how "they" killed us? CIA's act was patriotic. It was necessary to protect our country and our people. The liberal left's attack on the CIA action is NOT patriotic because it put us all in danger.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Michael Porter, Fairfield, Iowa — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:16:22 GMT

If we condone torture we give up everything America stands for, what so many people of courage and honor fought and died for, the essence of liberty and freedom. We regress back into the darkness of history.

There are some principles that are worth dying for. If one doesn't get that, all words are useless.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

dsmith, calleyville,ks — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:16:29 GMT

The idea of a cadre of 'professional sadists' willing to torture anyone they are ordered to apply thier specialty to does not sound like my America, you know, the one you were taught about in school. Apparently someone wasn't paying attention in class.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

bill,houston,tx — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:17:31 GMT

This sounds like "the ckeck' in the mail" routine.

how can anyone believe these guys?

they only lie when their lips are moving.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Will, Atlanta Georgia — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:18:44 GMT

If we waterboard terrorists, we become terrorists. Many people say that waterboarding is simulated drowning; actually it's real drowning, but controlled.

Many people hate the terrorists and they relish the idea of torturing them. This is sick. It's perverse. It's vengeful. It's foolish. It's anti-American. These people need to calm down and think rationally.

Waterboarding is torture. Torture is illegal and immoral. So waterboarding is illegal and immoral.

There are many other effective ways to extract information from reticent terrorists besides torture. We need to use those means in order to prevent further terrorism.

Finally, the people who authorized and engaged in waterboarding need to be held accountable for their crimes. They need to be prosecuted with the full weight of the law. The claim that they intended to protect America is an insufficient defense. There are many ways to protect America that do not violate human rights and civil rights.
It's time to stop terrorizing people in the name of counterterrorism.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

James Texas — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:25:07 GMT

How many times have we heard, we don't torture??
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

~Voltaire

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bethie Weber — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:25:18 GMT

Well, personally if the American Government allows torture to 1, 21, 101, or 1001 POW's which is what these men are (terrorists were the member os the American government that nuked Japan)then we have no right to declare war against any country that violates human rights, even by killing Americans. We became a dangerous third world country when we justified Hiroshima. Excusing the name of mass murder or torture in the name of democracy is like saying if just because satin really isn't even because he does it with a smile and good intentions.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Anonymous (Toronto) — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:31:10 GMT

Although I don't agree with Bushs' reason for invading Irag and strating a war. I do feel that within such nefarious times, one must utilize any technique available to extract information. Why are we protecting the rights of the very people who behead our citizens on the www? Are they having meetings on how to attack Americans in a more civil manor? Doubtful. One can't fight a war with futile methods, surely this redundant methodology will come back to haunt us. CIA, employ any means necessary to prevail against the terrorist. Bush got us into this mess, now you have to get us out!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

John Pitchford, Powder Springs, Georgia — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:32:51 GMT

Those of you on the "anti" side of this argument are hypocrites:.... "a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs".....or, you are simply naive....
While you may be justifiably critical of our government's policies, and maybe you even find yourself "ashamed to be an American" just remember this....you enjoy the freedom, prosperity, and opportunity that comes with US citizenship. These are all products of a foreign policy that has for the most part not changed in our 230+ year history as a country. We go to war overseas at times to protect our interests, to further our interests, and to uphold our alliances with other friendly nations....and we do so with great, but not unlimited restraint...that's about all the average citizen needs to know..If the thought of murderous terrorists on a waterboard troubles you....I suggest you consider this argument carefully... Then speak out or blog away if you want to.....but don't say stupid things like "I'm ashamed to be an American".

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Steve, Miami Florida — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:33:44 GMT

To all,

Ask yourself this question - If (1)you were responsible for making the decision to use or not use waterboarding on a terrorist on September 10, 2001 and (2)you knew there was a major attack (expected to kill over 3000 Americans) of some sort planned for the next day and he had the information to thwart it, what would you do. What explanation would you give to the families of the 3000 people killed if you decided not to use waterboarding to same their loved ones?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Larry Raymond, Arlington heights, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:34:15 GMT

Ryan Veer, Bozeman, Montana wrote "Why should we give terrorists rights that they would never uphold if the situation was reversed."

We believe these rights are not ours to give. They are endowed by our creator. They are also not ours to take away.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Ric Haskins — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:35:35 GMT

Shame on everyone who dismisses or denies that lives were saved because of this last resort used. Moral understanding of self-defense and saving life in the face of horrible evil should not be based on politics. But to the left and the Bush-haters, moral understanding and saving innocent lives are less important than...hating Bush.

CNN: "KSM's information led U.S. officials, they say, to several alleged terrorists who were actively putting together another 9/11-style plot, this time to attack the West Coast."

BOB GRENIER, FMR. CIA STATION CHIEF: "I strongly doubt, had it not been for the capture of KSM and the successful interrogation, that we would have found Hambali in time." (CNN)

The left whines about ‘lost right’ and is against every single measure this administration has ever used to protect them – the Patriot Act, conditional wire-taps, and even the thought of selective and intelligent security profiling disturbs them. But they sure have no problem taking away rights when they want to ban public smoking, plastic bags and even light bulbs. This encapsulates the priorities of the left. Besides self-serving and mostly pointless, they also keep us far less safe.

No, all of these examples along with the left’s absolute contempt for Bush and what was done here is just more proof of how and why they are unqualified to defend the innocent people of this country. The rest of us are justifiably grateful that the CIA got KSM to spill his beans. God bless them!!! The infinitely greater wrong was prevented as a result!

Only the morally-challenged Bush-hating left cares less than they continue to just hate anything/everything Bush. Nothing to be proud of.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Sam, Minneapolis, MN — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:38:02 GMT

No, we should not waterboard. Besides being inhumane, it does not bring the truth. After so much waterboarding they will say whatever you want them to say.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Scuba,Orlando Florida — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:38:23 GMT

Has everyone already forgotten the fact that they caught our people and cut there heads off on camera?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

i'm right, yer wrong, san diego, CA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:39:08 GMT

For those on the "America Can Do Anything It Wants" kick. Why don't all of you torture and war supporters ask any American vet that was tortured for the safety of the nation it was tortured by, if they though it was the right thing.

Ask them what it's like to live with that hanging over them.

Ask an American vet's parents if it was Ok to torture their son in Viet Nam.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Proud American who supports the CIA, Manhattan Beach, CA. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:46:58 GMT

Any means necessary to protect our country and our citizens abroad. Waterboarding doesn't kill innocent civilians. Interrogation helps in stopping terrorists whose intent is to kill our children. We need to toughen up to the new realities of our world.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Proud American who supports the CIA, Manhattan Beach, CA. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:53:34 GMT

In the West Bank city of Hebron, relatives of Shadi Zghayer and Mohammed Herbawi said they learned from watching Hamas' Al Aqsa TV that the two were named as the Dimona bombers. The men, Hamas members in their 20s, left home early Monday, without giving their destination, their relatives said.

"I am proud of my son and hope he goes to heaven," said Zghayer's mother, Aziya.

And we complain about waterboarding to get information to help save lives. People of America those who want to kill us have no regard for human life.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Pam Schnelle, Cincinnati, Ohio — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:56:04 GMT

It does not matter that waterboarding is effective, or that our enemies will do the same & worse to us. What matters is that waterboarding is wrong. If we use this technique to gain information, we do not deserve the victory we seek over our enemies. God is not on our side when we choose the path of evil just because it is effective. What goes around comes around, sometimes with a vengeance.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

rockhound, USA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:03:54 GMT

I have mixed thoughts and feelings about water boarding (or other types) to gain information. For instance, under physical duress, would a person admit to just about anything being asked in order to subdue the pain? The answer would obviously be a yes. So what would be the net gain?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

i'm right, yer wrong, san diego, CA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:20:46 GMT

When you torture, you show no regard for human life!

If you're all caught up in the fear/hysteria/security thing, then nobody can change your mind.

If not then pay close attention. If Americans tortures the world, then the world has the right to torture Americans.

It is plain and simple, no debate.

So when the next American is beheaded after being tortured for a month, don't get upset. Just say to yourself "all is fair in love and war".

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

DonJoe, seattle, Wash — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:23:12 GMT

Just remember, there might be children somewhere in the world who might know something. Shouldn't we let bush torture them to death to make sure they tell us everything? If he doesn't torture them to death, maybe there was something they didn't tell us. Yes, Bush needs the right to kill innocent men, women and children all over the world so he can feel safe. Doesn't that make him safer after all?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Patrick McDonald, St. Michael Minnesota — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:25:27 GMT

Water boarding was a common training technique used by the military. I was water boarded in 1977 during NAVY SERE training. If you hate Bush and the CIA then demand they be tried, I will be the first to press charges against Jimmy Carter for allowing me to be tortured by the US Government. Jimmy Carter is a WAR Criminal just like Bush! Jimmy Carter relished torturing me. Prosecute the war criminal Carter. I'm sure it happened under the Clinton's too! Hang all of the War criminals. Get Real, the people in the CIA are doing the best they can under extremely difficult circumstances and you haters ought to move to France or learn the truth before you cast stones!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bruce C Dubey — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:26:03 GMT

Lies, lies, and more lies. Our government tells us we don't torture. Now it admits we do. How come this article doesn't emphasize or even point out the discrepancy/hypocrisy? So, now we are to believe they are coming completely clean, that it was only three and all done several years ago? What about those subjected, such as the innocent Canadian, to illegal renditions to other countries, where we outsourced the despicable acts we didn't wish to be associated with? What is the basis for trust, since it has clearly not been earned?

For those whose testosterone overload and/or overblown fears impair rational, objective thought, it should be pointed out that--contrary to Hayden's assertions--a number of highly skilled and trained interrogators from different branches of government all agree that torture is not only immoral, but counter-productive to intelligence gathering, as well as to furthering our ideals and goals. It should also be obvious that condoning, tolerating, or committing such atrocities has the net effect of decreasing everyone's security.

Moreover, there is never any absolute guarantee of security--that is only an illusion the current administration seeks to fabricate with their fear-mongering. That disingenuous Chicken Little gambit is used mostly as a means to gain political advantage, putting us all at greater risk, and should be rejected outright.

We can courageously stand up for what is moral and right, accepting the accompanying risks as our illustrious forefathers have done, or we can cowardly forfeit our integrity, and follow Bush and Co. down the dark path into hell. Your choice.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

PhilB, Houston, Texas — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:28:11 GMT

Have you forgotten?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

John, Knoxville, TN — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:29:40 GMT

All those who oppose aggressive tactics to save American lives and soldiers should be allowed to go over, have tea, and discuss it with those who have this "dislike" for our culture.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bucolic Badger, Richmond, VA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:31:29 GMT

Each time someone says that torture in any form is wrong, they should be shown a picture of the four contractors who were hanged on the bridge in Bagdad and burned! The thing we need to do is STOP CASTRATING the American male in every sense of th word, and raise up some warriers. If we keep apologizing for everything, we are going to be the ones protesting our own maltreatment. Simper Fi, WHO-HA!!!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

John Doe, Seattle, Wash — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:31:56 GMT

The problem is, government as we know it distorts the very fabric that separates the human race from the rest of the animals on earth. All animals fight, but only humans can choose there destiny.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

soldier ft lewis — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:33:23 GMT

send all the tree hugging librals over to live and exprience what our troops are going through and seeing and see how their oppinions change. When the vehicle your friends and fellow soldiers' were in is nothing but a frame and a egine block, see what you think.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

AJ, Chicago, IL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:34:38 GMT

There are several people who allude to "other ways to get the information" without torture. Please illucidate what those techniques might be and how effective you think they would be against a hardened terrorist that would like to cut your head off. Slightly more effective than waterboarding would be forcing them to spend a month in a confined cell with Hillary....Oh, I guess that would be torture, too.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

C Anthony Tucson, az — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:35:17 GMT

To all you liberal cry babies who think that we are playing some kind of game with terrorizm. Please move to some pacifist country where critizing our goverment is common place until, of course, you need our protection and the blood of our sisters and brothers to free you from tyranny. You should be ashamed to call yourself an American!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Stefan, Berlin, Germany — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:36:51 GMT

It amazes me the terminology used to sanitize what people do. Enhanced interrogation, is nothing more than a sanitized term for torture. Torture is wrong for many reasons, one of them being...it doesn't work! If you are being tortured, you will say what ever it takes to stop it. A good example is the tortured confession of the Auschwitz commandant Hoess, he confessed to the murder of 4.1 million, he confessed to the manufacture of human soap, human lampshades, and many other tales, which have now been proven without a doubt to be false. Torture is wrong...period. If you are one that thinks it's ok, you better hope it doesn't happen to you.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Think about it, San Diego, CA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:39:56 GMT

excuse me "i'm right yet wrong," are you comparing american vet's to terrorists?
Have any of you against this waterboarding technique forgetting that we are doing this to the terrorists who attacked our country and killed thousands? Have you forgotten we are doing this to the terrorists our country is fighting against out in the middle east? Are you forgetting that we are doing this to terrorists who would do so much worse in return, and have (example: beheading).
In a normal war, one country against another, at least following the Geneva Conventions, then it would be wrong...but this is SO different.
I am boggled as to how some cannot see that!!!!! THINK ABOUT ITTTTTTTT....if the information is keeping thousands..maybe hundreds of thousands, hell, the whole country safe from evil harm, then so BE IT!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

The one who knows, Holliston MA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:42:04 GMT

The problem is, government as we know it distorts the very fabric that separates the human race from the rest of the animals on earth. All animals fight, but only humans can choose their destiny.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bill Wright — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:48:26 GMT

You tree hugging liberals make me sick, you would give this country away in a New York minute. I love my country and have served my country for over 20 years in the military. If we require information from known terrorists to protect our homeland then let it be so. I don't care if we have to pull fingernails, chop of fingers and whatever else, if that will protect my country and my loved ones then let's do it.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Paul Hauser, Wellington, FL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:49:46 GMT

I'm in the column that believes this is war and we need to do whatever it takes to win. The age of civility in warfare is long past, witness our own Revolution. There is no such thing as a "Nice" war. The object is to win, period, to stamp out Islamic Fascism utterly and finally. We ought to do whatever is necessary to make sure we do so because our enemy certainly will, and our very survival is at stake. All this high minded crap reminds me of that nonsense my mother told me as a kid, "Don't stoop to their level." A lot of good that did me when my eye was blackened.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

zq,bflo.,n.y. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:51:19 GMT

Sorry,but I can't find a smidgeon of sympathy for these animals..fruuunkus..

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Jesse - Iraq — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:51:44 GMT

I read all these comments and I can't help but wonder, what our nation would be like if we allowed other nations to rule our country. Picture this people your wife or daughter goes to the store and forgets to cover her hair, so she is stoned to death, or it's hot and they have on a tank top so they are arrested for showing too much skin in public. That is a reality for women in the middle-east. Think before you speak, we as AMERICANS are the luckiest poeple in the world our freedom comes at a price.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Paul Hauser, Wellington, FL — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:51:50 GMT

Hey Fili, in Utah...We are NOT rabbits!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Leroy Thompson, Brooklyn, NY — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:12:43 GMT

how naive and gullible to the malarky thats oozes from the real criminal element in America and promulgated by the news agencies...America has been exporting terrorism and torture for years, along with the other international criminals, just a few to mention; China, Israel, the former South American dictatorships (weren't they trained by the CIA & Cuban exiles-namely the school in Panama, so much for JFK's image, South Africa, France, etc, etc. etc. The reason why they are so "open" about waterboarding?... because they got away with it and will now and in the future. Habeas corpus out the window, torture now can be done out of the closet. Wake up America before its too late, tomorrow it will be me and you and they'll be another rationalization.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bobby, Anchorage Alaska — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:18:02 GMT

Which of the two statements carries more or less value? We're honest American's because we do everything possible to keep our citizens safe(Waterboarding)?

Or, are we honest American's because we let terrorists hold "possible time-sensitive" information that could kill our citizens or troops because we're afraid of being dishonest with ourselves?

The definitive word is honesty. How honest are we if we let terrorists plot against us? The obvious pro-active, pre-emptive and honest move to protect our citizens is waterboarding. Nonetheless, waterboarding is a typical government decision. Very many, if not all, government decisions are not "honest". Typically, the decisions that are made at the government level are "lesser of two evil type decisions".

Consequently, waterboarding is a no-brainer and I would prefer America staying a competitive nation than a nation that doesn't stay on a competitive level with our adversaries it it keeps American citizens way ahead of danger. How honest can we be if we let terrorists off the hook?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

PAUL NAVY VET — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:18:45 GMT

FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ASHAMED TO BE AMERCIAN MOVE OUT TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!!!!!!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bob, Harrisburg, PA — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:25:02 GMT

KSM orchestrtes attacks that kill 3000 Americans and there is such an uproar about waterboarding 3 people? Give me a break!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

T.W. Salt Lake City, UT — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:28:18 GMT

You can not negotiate with terrorists, extremists, radicals, or fanatics. I spent over 30 years with Military Intelligence. These terrorists do not play by any rules. There are no rules of engagement for them. What happended at Abu Ghraib was nothing more than embarassment...there was no torture. Waterboarding is an evil necessity that must be done in order to save lives. Stop being panty-waisted pansies and wake up to the world of reality. This is war, not a Sunday picnic. Our military is doing the best they can, considering the politicians tie their hands. Give them a break and support them in their endeavors. I did one tour of Iraq myself.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Wayward Bill, Denver, CO — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:42:30 GMT

I just read all the comments and all I can say is that no one seems to noticed that the US Constitution is being eroded by allowing any of this to happen at all. Restore the balance of power. Where is habeas corpus in all this.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Jesuswasaliberal Fanwood, New Jersey — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:37:18 GMT

Folks, I hate to break the news, but the experts have weighed in on this-statistically, torture does not work! After a time, people will say just about ANYTHING to get the torture to stop. The reliability of the information extracted is highly questionable. Occassionally, they might get some truth out, but much more can be obtained through more subtle coercsion (oh, yeah, right. I forgot-Bush & Dick Cheney "don't do subtle"). Another point all you right-wing nuts forget:Al-Qaida was not neccessarily cutting off the heads of their captives to try to get any information out of them. That was solely for the purpose of shocking us all. I'm sure even al-Qaida realizes there are more effective ways of getting info from someone and they don't all involve waterboarding or beheading. However, make no mistake: they may still do it for the sheer "fun" of it.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Right, Redmond, WA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:38:58 GMT

We tortured because we want information to save lives. We do not torture because we wanted to inflict pain. In contrast, they killed because they want us to suffer. No, we do not become terrorists if we torture the terrorist to extract info to protect ourselves. Is the info reliable? Maybe, maybe not. But we can always verify. CIA is not stupid. After 911, a lot of government agencies got blamed for not doing enough to protect our country. Well, when the memory faded, the liberal left is now saying that the government and CIA are doing too much in the name of protecting the country. For those who argued that they will torture our vets, well, I say that whatever we do, torture or not, doesn’t have any effect on what they will do. To try to reason with them and expect that they think the same way as we do is naïve beyond believe. This is not a moral issue. We are dealing with evil.

What’s going to happen in the next few years is that the left will try to strip all the tools that our agencies have to fight terrorism and the attack will happen, and then they will blame those agencies for not doing enough to protect the country. Sound familiar? That was what lead to 911 and we are repeating the history as we see it.

If you are willing to die to defend the right of the terrorist, in the name of humanity, be my guest. But don’t say that I am a terrorist simply because I endorse my government’s action to protect myself and my family.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Greg State College Pa — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:52:10 GMT

first choice in war is to kill the enemy, but there are times you win by taking a prisoner and getting much needed intell, Last I looked, all of our enemies have used violent techniques against our pows, all which were much more painful than the relativley benign waterboarding. It is very effective in most cases. Actually, if we have a top Al-Qeida prisoner,there is nothing too painful

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

mkess westhampton, NY — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:55:20 GMT

no matter what you say the gov will not take it to consideration so whats the point?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Carson, Japan — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:53:03 GMT

Wake up Americans and join the real world! If we are at war with another country, and they are at war with us, what do you think its going to be like? The other side isnt going to play by our rules. The CIA and our military is as a professional organization as anyone is going to find in this world, they dont just result to torture because they want to, and I am sure that they dont enjoy torturing people unlike the other-side who cuts off peoples heads and video tapes it to psychologically torture our families. If the leaders of this country that are on the front lines think that its necessary and wants to use methods like waterboarding that dont leave any long lasting physical damage to the enemy combatant then thats what they should do. Our enemies have a choice when they are caught in combat and have information that would help us save American lives, they could just cooperate and give us the information or we can allow our men to do what needs to be done. They want to kill us, our country, and our God, and we are worried about weather or not its inhumane. Thank God for the brave men and women who are defending our nation and that its not these delusional few.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

A realist , Virginia , USA -the greatest country in the world — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:53:26 GMT

The terrorists have no mercy for their victims , why should we ? We should not be afraid of what SCUM has to say about it ! Let the CIA do what is neccessary to preserve our liberty. Stoop to the terrorists level ? Let them step up to ours and conduct themselves in a civilized manner !

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Tom Chicago, IL — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 01:58:40 GMT

So these people that say the CIA is the same as Al Qaeda are they ignorant or simply lying? Waterboard while not pleasant is not have an power drill applied to your joints, it's not subjecting people to electric shock, and it definitely not beheading people. There should be an argument on how far we, as a country, want our intelligence services to go, but let's be adults and not lie to each other about the realities of the world.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Rob, TX — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:19:15 GMT

Some people think terrorists would give false information if they are waterboarded. So far that has not been shown to be the case in the very few times it has even been used. Even if it were to happen, once you find out its false you merely waterboard them yet again--I bet they don't do it twice. Even the most recalcitrant prisoner has give up info. What makes you think that if you don't waterboard them, that they are not going to give false information? Giving a terrorist candy has never worked.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Dave Thomas, Los Angeles, CA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:23:08 GMT

Thank God the CIA used any means necessary to protect Americans from the murderous plots of these maniacs. The fanatic idealist that say mass murderers have the same rights as innocent civilians need to be sent to the medieval Islamic realm of the tribal areas of Pakistan for a little dose of what they are shoveling. Thank God for the CIA and President Bush, and shame on the envious haters of the United States of America.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

esimmonspacoletsc — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:25:17 GMT

I beleive that torture,like waterbording,shocking,heating and freeezing bodies,strong light is wrong,you can get all the information you want by drugging,it has no side effect if used very proper by trained people.abuse this way and you have a zombie,i do beleive its just better to kill them and that in its self is sufficient.thats right kill the whole nation-wipe them out if they the enemy.,i beleive this is just cruel to torture any one or aminials.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Fastguy, Farmington Hills, Mich. — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:55:08 GMT

I believe that our intelligence, military, and law enforcement officers should have the flexibility to utilize a variety of methods to interrogate prisoners, consistent with the crimes involved. I further believe that extreme methods, like waterboarding, should only be used as a last resort, or when speed is imperative for overarching reasons.

Our defenders must have the tools they need to do their jobs.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Never Forget, US — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:10:44 GMT

The tactics that are being used is only questioned by those that haven't served the front line.

We live in a world with walls that must be guarded against terrorist. Who's gonna do it? You?
Our troops and agents have more responsibility than most can fathom. (Keeping you safe and secure) You weep for those who have been waterboarded and curse the very soldiers that stand the line to protect you. This existence, while grotesque to some, saves lives!
We sit here and depend on these men and women to safe guard this country yet we continue to crucify the tactics that are used. Was your loved ones' neck cut from ear to ear? Was it broadcasted on the internet and repeatedly discussed on the nightly news?

Maybe you should pick up a gun and stand a post!

Sincerely,
The Forgotten Soldiers

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

William Stuart, San Diego CA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:30:14 GMT

The question is, is waterboarding torture? So we made three men have the sniffles for a few days. They directly led to death and torture of thousands of innocent people. So they had the sniffles for a few days. Kaleed Sheik Mohhamed personally severed the head off of a non-military civilian human-being. So he has the sniffles for a few days. Who cares? He's still alive...which is more than I can say for that young Danny Pearl, whose life was brutally taken from him at a very young age. Which would YOU rather have done to you... the sniffles game... or the head-chopping-off thing??? Take your pick, right now. I opt for a little water poured in my nose any day than to have my head slowly sawed and hacked off and filmed for all my family to see. But what people are failing to understand is that THIS is the very same technique that we employ on even our own people that we want to LIVE. If this is that bad to do to somebody, why ARE we afraid to do it to 3 people who want to kill us, but we ARE NOT AFRAID to do it to our own U.S. soldiers??? Am I hearing you right?? (Waterboarding is safer than binge drinking, yet thousands of college students across America every weekend, willingly subject themselves to that!) Read this previous post: "..I was water boarded in 1970 during SERE trainig prior to going to Okinawa and flying mission off of Viet Nam.
Retired Navy, Volcano, Ca (Tuesday, February 05, 2008 3:26 PM)"

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Raul S., Miami, FL — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:50:08 GMT

As Americans we all try to live and let live and for some reason we think the rest of the world is playing by those rules. While I may like to think we wouldn't have to resort to torturing someone to get information, in certain circumstances it may be necessary. People, please lets not forget that we're dealing with extremists that happily give their lives for whatever their particular causes are. Extremists don't care or respect how we live and our live and let live attitudes. Their attitudes in turn are of oppression and control. You simply cannot compete with that with "please sir, give me the information". I say to you all, extremists must be dealt with in extreme ways. And don't forget, we were all hear at home minding our own business when it was THEY who decided to come knocking on OUR doors. Well now that they have our attention its our responsibility to unleash every tool at our disposal to deal with these extremists.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

commanding officer — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:00:48 GMT

The point that is often missed is that torture and harsh interrogation methods fail to produce executable intelligence. Trained interrogators will find it hard to argue with that.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Joanne, Pittsburgh, PA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:19:50 GMT

These are some of the most wanted, violent criminals who have been trained to sacrifice themselves in suicide bombings. If they are prepared and trained for this kind of violent horrible death, what is a little bit of waterboarding going to do? I would think these tactics would be a cakewalk for any terrorist whom is trained to endure this kind of tourture anyway. The thing is,I don't want any innocent people being tortured. That would be a crime.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

E, KY — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:38:17 GMT

From the Muslim playbook:

Qur'an 8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Ishaq:315 "It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers, nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. We will bring upon the infidels the fate of the Ad and Jurhum. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it. You will be shamed in Hell, forced to wear a garment of molten pitch forever!"

*Lots* more where that came from. Do these sound like reasonable people? Terrorism is torture for the sake of torture, death, and cowing of the survivors. Waterboarding is usually non-lethal and administered for the sake of acquiring useful information such as regarding potential "imminent catastrophic attacks." If just one attack was even potentially averted, then I can't buy the argument that the comfort of a few terrorists is worth more than potentially thousands of American lives.

I know trashing Bush is all the rage right now, but war is, unfortunately, war and a terrorist attack beats moral sciolism at the Administration's expense every time.

If Qaeda decides to torture you bastions of liberty or your families like they've done Mr. Pearl and countless others, then before you die take comfort in knowing you did your part in preventing it by defending Qaeda's right not to be waterboarded.

Go CIA!

E

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Wim Bartelds, The Hague, Holland — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:20:10 GMT

One who tortures people is essentially no better than the terrorists one says to fight against.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Thomas , France — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:34:07 GMT

This is not just about waterboarding...Your government is responsible for the death of one million Iraqis...not just about three people waterboarded.Many under occupation were subject to torture, humiliation, sexual assaults and murder.How can you call yourselves the greatest supporters of democracy in the world when Iraq is under occupation for 5 years and you support a dictatorship of Pakistan?
Frankly, your government acts in the best self-centred interests of the America.

Your gov's actions can be summarised below:-

Iraq = oil
Pakistan = musharaf to protect the nukes
Iran = stable government is a threat to Israel's existence, so throw hell at them

Isn't that what you are doing?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

t. rishan; atlanta, ga — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:04:38 GMT

do not refer to a terrorist as an "architect" of anything. bad metaphor.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

George Morales, Parker CO — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:45:05 GMT

Those of you who are compelled to sound off about our moral highground, what are YOU doing to keep me and my family safe? You should be thanking your lucky stars I am not leading this country. I would look under every unturned rock, crawl in every hole in the ground, look behind every bush, tree to search, waterboard, and completely destroy each of these individuals. We are at WAR, I TAKE NO PRISONERS, it's either them or us. You who believe we must be CIVIL on this matter, live and breathe in a fantasy world. Why should I even carry a dialogue with people who do not have a grasp of reality? GW, keep up the good work!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Bert, AL — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:12:04 GMT

Bill Bailey of Walla Walla, WA posted "Whether or not you call waterboarding torture, it's practiced only by the most evil beings, not by Christians, or any reasonable people."

Could you please define reasonable people? Under the circumstances, I seem to think that these few instances of waterboarding is completely reasonable. This mild "torture" may be considered irrational to you, but if it saves one American life so be it.

I do not mean to insult anyone, for these are simply my beliefs.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

LastFreeAmericanStanding, In Minnesota — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:23:57 GMT

Will the Senate investigate the CIA and the Military to determine how long waterboarding has gone on. Probably back to the days of FDR (he who rounded up Americans (japanese decent), Truman of the Atom bomb or JFK who covered up his failed overthrow of CUBA with a litte wag of the tail in Viet Nam which cost the United States 58000 lives and 350000 casualties. It also resulted in between one and two million Vietnamese deaths. Carter lost 100's of lifes in a failed rescue of the Iranian hostages. We waterboarded 3 terrorists. Big Deal. I would personally donate the bullet, gun and pull the trigger on all three of them. In fact, lets close Gitmo (I will dispose of the terrorists personnally). It is the only thing these thugs understand. If Hillary or B. Hussein Obama want to stop it then let them get into office. For now - GO CIA!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Gord Thomas, Ontario, Canada — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:40:53 GMT

Maybe if America cleaned up their own country first and kept its nose in its own backyard, The Eastern countries would have no reason to STRIKE BACK !!! Bad enough we have to fight your war in Afganastan, which most Americans seem to forget.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Blas Moreno Haymarket, VA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:57:03 GMT

I have seen the recent news about the waterboarding controversy and it troubles me deeply. The liberal media and Democrats have gone too far to accuse the CIA and White House of possible criminal activity. It borders on misleading the American Public just to sell a story. The primary responsibility of an elected official (mayor, governor, senator) is to ensure the safety and security of its constituents either through a police force or military. As harsh as the interrogation technique is, I believe it is critically necessary. It cannot be compared to cutting, pulling finger nails or burning. Evidently waterboarding works and doesn't inflict permanent damage and shouldn’t be classified as torture. Here is an important note: we are the only country playing by the rules! Do you think rogue governments or terrorist care about the Geneva Convention? Of course not! When it comes to terrorist who have no respect for human life, we need to "take the gloves off", “any means necessary”. Also, the Democrats should be ashamed of politicizing this. National Security should never be politicized and anyone that does obviously cares more about being elected than American lives.

What the controversy comes down to is what is more important: American lives or the American reputation? The former administration chose the latter and we got: the African embassy bombings, the USS COLE attack and the dual World Trade Center bombings (911). Maybe the critics of the administration need to travel to Israel to see what a country enveloped in terrorism is. The American public needs to wake up and realize National Security is not a reality show where Americans get to pick and choose their solutions. It is about American lives being safe here and abroad. We need to win this war on terrorism so our children won't have to fight it. This debate is more important as we will see which candidate is more determined to win to finish the war on terrorism.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

skrekk, Madison, WI — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:07:06 GMT

To those who support waterboarding: our government simply isn't willing to conform to the international laws to which it's a signatory. If we're willing to blatantly violate the Nuremberg Principles and the UN Charter by waging an aggressive war against a non-hostile nation, torture seems like such a trivial matter. From article 2.2 of the Convention Against Torture (http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html):

"No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture."

No exceptions are allowed. Period.

From article 1.1:

"torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

Seems to me that includes a great deal of the mistreatment that many detainees have endured under our benevolent care.

The questions not answered by Hayden are these:

1. how many innocent people are you willing to torture?

2. how much time in a "ticking bomb" scenario are you willing to waste chasing useless leads derived under torture?

3. do you believe the US should follow the rule of law (international treaties or domestic law)?

If we intend to allow torture under any specific circumstances, then we must withdraw from the treaty, and not condemn the practices of other nations. If, however, we wish to be a better people, we will fully prosecute those who directly committed torture, those who authorized torture, and those officials who had knowledge of it but did nothing. This should be a preeminent campaign issue.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

lewis, wa soldier — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:54:49 GMT

well I think that the american people are weak and clueless. they want the cia and the military to act like their local city police. you can't fight terrorrist and win with the same restriction on your forces that you place on your local police. (see if they publish this one. msnbc doesn't seem to like my views of sending the librals and tree huggers to iraq and see how their opions change.)

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Hammer6Actual, Forward Deployment — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:04:45 GMT

I wonder what these anti-waterboarding critics say if it was their children who was targeted in the next terrorist operation? The US Military and CIA offer a blanket of protection and security so they can cuddle up with spouses and children then question the manner by which it was provided?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Trevor, San Diego, CA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:15:09 GMT

Jesse or anyone else who has the same thoughts-if your sad to be an American and you dont like your leaders than GET THE HELL OUT OF THE UNITED STATES! We are at war and if it was up to cowards like you we'd lose. God Bless President George W Bush, the CIA, FBI, and our military of which Im a proud veteren. Kill them before they kill us-thats why its called WAR

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

brmerrick, New Jersey — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:24:51 GMT

Everyone should go to the FBI's webpage for "Most Wanted Terrorists:"

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

And read the paragraphs at the top. WHAT investigations into 9/11 are STILL ONGOING???

If that doesn't bother you, go to their page on Osama bin Laden:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

And tell my why he is NOT wanted in connection with 9/11?

If you are still not at all concerned, why not go to this webpage:

http://www.ae911truth.org/

And get yourselves an education?

The dictatorship that Bush is setting up will continue under Hillary Rodham Clinton, and make no mistake, the woman who believes in a "vast right-wing conspiracy" will not hesitate to waterboard American Citizens along with suspected terrorists.

Congratulations, all you reflexive "conservatives." You are acting like the sheeple the Bushes and Clintons want. I'm sick of being lied to about 9/11, torture, and the terrorist threat. How about you?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Pat Boyle, Warminster, PA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:35:26 GMT

I hope no one in here has ever raised a hand against some one, yelled at someone, used offensive language, or touched anyone for the reason of intimidating them or scaring them into doing/telling something. TORTURE you'd say! Making someone physically uncomfortable and hurting someone are very different things.

Maybe we should have gotten them steaks and beers and pu them ina climate controlled room.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Brian, Reston, VA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:21:53 GMT

3 dirty scums were waterboarded--just 3! Obviously the CIA did not go rogue and do this to every suspected terrorist. Hundreds, if not thousands of terrorist attacks have been thwarted as a result of terrorist interrogations. Nevertheless, waterboarding was used on only 3 individuals. That shows a lot of restraint. Obviously the 3 individuals waterboarded were big dogs on the terrorist hierarchy who would have known a lot about operations being planned by al-Qaida. I'm throwing a wild guess out here and guessing that until they were waterboarded, they were not too cooperative on sharing that information with the interrogators.

Also, the people in "marketing" for al-Qaida must laugh hysterically at the thought that while they are all focused on killing us infidels in the West, Americans are throwing mud at each other for using these techniques that have been successful at stopping them. Instead of going after the terrorists with the same focus and determination that they kill us with, we are calling our own public servants "terrorists". That is what you all should be ashamed of...calling our most faithful public servants terrorists while they are protecting your neck.Just think about it...it seems rather backwards.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

PAUL US NAVY VET — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:45:58 GMT

REMEMBER WHO SAVED FRANCE FROM HITLER????HOW SOON THEY FORGET!!!

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Techson, TX — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 01:10:30 GMT

What it all boils down to is this:
Waterboarding under the Bush administration would be "torture," while waterboarding under a Dem administration would be "re-education."

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

S, San Diego CA — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:43:39 GMT

When we finally do catch Bin Laden. Would you stand up as a human-shield to prevent him from being waterboarded? Will you give him a backrub and a foot massage and offer him a toast with your finest wine?

Will you open the gate to let him out and tell him that you wish that, or hope that, he doesn't do another 9-11 again??? Let's vote now on this, would YOU, yourself, be willing to step in and physically prevent Mr. Bin Laden from being waterboarded?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

William Stuart, San Diego CA — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:46:31 GMT

Why are we talking about waterboarding as if it were torture. It is not torture. The people are fine the very next day. Name ONE person who has ever died from it, or was permanently damaged... you can't, can you! It is not torture. Stop saying pouring water over someone's face is torture. These are two separate things. You know what torture is, not doing everything you can after 9-11...that is torture to the families who lost loved ones in New York. Torture is not being able to look them in the eyes and say that you did everything that you possibly could have done to preserve the sanctity of the memory of their loved ones and those fallen...and to ensure that their death was not in vain.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Texson, Tx — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 04:35:48 GMT

Liberals only consider waterboarding to be "torture" because it's the Bush administration doing it to prevent muslim attacks on the USA. When a liberal administration uses waterboarding, it's called "re-education."

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Chris Beamis, Edmonds, WA — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:29:29 GMT

We can go Kumbaya and not become the monsters we're trying to destroy. And maybe get less info and maybe get worse info. (See Fili Ledezma's story above.)

We can 'take off the gloves' and maybe get better info, and maybe not (again see Fili's story). And guarantee that we've now sentenced someone to unspeakable horror.

Option A is risky, it is possible me might miss life saving information. Option 2 isn't an option.

Is this our entire search space for solutions?

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

dave R Kansas city,mo — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:15:11 GMT

What I do not understand about the torture to save lives crowd is, there in not one piece of
evedince that the waterboarding that our goverment did, saved one life. If we are to just
take this administration word for it that would be stupid. as everyone know's they have lied at
every turn. Also, there are several people in other country's that have accused this country of
torture in the name of the war on terror, that
now it seem's they were not terrorist after all,
in their case it was a simple mistake. Were very
sorry we did thing to you, tell them that.

As you all will see it dose not matter what we think, we are 300,000,000 in a world of 6 billion, the rest of the world considers this torture. Other country's have already started the
prossess of holding our officals responsibale.
As soon as they leave office, the international
body will settle this issue, as Amercians watch
a ex president and vice president set for trial
in frount of the whole world. This is the one they were waiting for, if they will try a US PRESIDENT for war crimes, nobody in the world is safe if they do these thing's, nobody. they will make them the ultimate example.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Ray El Paso, TX — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:24:45 GMT

I have never seen so many anti-Americans whining in my life. If you don't like this great country than go to France. It is sad that the CIA and the Administration even has to give up this information. This is not information that the average citizen of our great country needs to know. We are at War people with violent extremists. Just because you are liberal democrat sypmathetic to the terrorists don't mean that they wouldn't cut off your head in an instant. They want nothing more than to destroy Western society and all "Infidels" (non-Muslim) Wake up people, leave this great country if you feel that way. You will never get it.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Rich,NMB,SC — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:22:06 GMT

torture is by any means torture and inhumane.I agree that their are ruthless people out ther, and we as a great nation and human beings should set an example to the world that this practice of torture should be abolished.How can we justify an act of torture and where will it stop.I say we stop and outlaw all aspects of torture,and any country that uses torture should be held accountable to the world nations.Be it sanctions and imprisonenment etc.This is not medival times and we have progressed as humans,we should set a guide as to further our existence.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

cahndra oza, san jose, ca — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:07:02 GMT

Waterboarding is legal to extract the information from the thugs and terriorists.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

John Conrad, Winston-Salem, NC — Tue, 06 May 2008 18:17:41 GMT

To differentiate ourselves from our enemies, we must hold the higher moral ground. When when lose it, we become the same and can expect the same from others. America has seen a little too much Jack Bauer, I think. We are only now learning that many of the prisoners at Gitmo are nothing more than unfortunate Arabs turned over for big bounties by greedy Pakistanis and Afghanis. So, not only does torture not work, we have also been torturing innocent men. As a veteran, I am ashamed.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

R. Burke — Tue, 06 May 2008 18:46:16 GMT

A quick way to assess whether a given interogation method is torture: would we object if an enemy used it on our captured men and women. If it's wrong when an enemy does it, it's wrong when we do it.

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Hannibal, San Diego, Ca — Fri, 09 May 2008 03:49:17 GMT

Please....Water Boarding is NOT torture. It is a technique commonly use on US Special Forces and American Air Crews for Training during SERE. There are far more successful techniques used than water boarding. Water Boarding is usually held in reserve when all else has failed. Read accounts on what our own vets faced with the Viet Cong and this technique will appear as child's play........

CIA reveals more on waterboarding

Elvis, NYC, NY — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:46:38 GMT

What are we really fighting to defend? Some land? Or the idea of the United States of America? If we give up our principles then we are really just fighting for the land - which is not under threat of being taken from us. What IS under threat of being taken from us is the principles we live by - the Constitution - and that is what we are fighting to defend. If any of you believe that we must compromise our principles in order to to defend against attackers then you are giving up on the U.S.