9/11 Commission controversy

tom — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:17:37 GMT

At this very moment I listen to Senator Kennedy rant about 'waterboarding' and other 'administration' unlawful acts... blah blah blah

9/11 Commission controversy

Bruce Entz, Wichita, KS — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:28:17 GMT

How shameful it is to be an American. How much lower will we stoop? And to think that many who support our imperialism claim to be "Christian" and "pro-life!"

9/11 Commission controversy

AJ Fan — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:36:14 GMT

The Pentagon’s approach to psychological operations (psy-ops) appears to have derived from the theories of former State Dept official, Philip Zelikow (who also served on the 9-11 Commission) Zelikow is an expert on “the creation and maintenance of ‘public myths’ or ‘public presumptions’. His theory analyzes how consciousness is shaped by “searing events” which take on “transcendent importance” and, therefore, move the public in the direction chosen by the policymakers.

9/11 Commission controversy

Thomas Schlessinger, Phoenix, AZ — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:53:36 GMT

I honestly don't understand the furor over the CIA using 'waterboarding' to get information from terrorists. If these were innocent people, then I'd agree their tactics were uncalled for - but these were people directly involed in murdering thousands of Americans on 9/11. Personally, I feel that if the interrogations were 'over the top', yet more innocent lives were saved as a result, then so be it.

9/11 Commission controversy

Bob, Ancchorage, Alaska — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:04:33 GMT

I beleive that any agent of the government should be allowed to do WHATEVER it takes to protect the US citezens. No other country tries to play by the silly rules that we do. This is what makes this country weak and getting weaker!

9/11 Commission controversy

Susan Quaintance, Buffalo, NY — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:07:45 GMT

It seems the 9/11 Commission report might as well be waste paper. How much credibility should we give information derived by torture? Such evidence is not acceptable in a court of law. A mission as important as that of the 9/11 Commission should not have relied on such "evidence".

9/11 Commission controversy

Ashley McHugh — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:31:08 GMT

Deep Background is NBC News’ investigative blog. It covers national security, terrorism, spies, Iraq, and politics, as well as government waste, fraud and abuse

---Why would you put secrets like these on the internet, where any terrorist or psychotic person can read.. Real smart..

Doesnt this put people in danger?

9/11 Commission controversy

Pete Massey Ret USAF, Elk Grove Village, IL — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:41:38 GMT

It seems as though the US wants the best of all worlds. Let me put it in my words, If you want to know information then let the intell agencies do what thay do the best and DO NOT ASK HOW the information was retrived. We demand that the intell agencies get the information and then we balk at how it was gotten. If you do not like the ways of Intell Operations then disband them and see just how far the US or any goverment will last. Remember Intell information is retrived from a lot of sources and if it requires extreme measures then so be it and let the Itell agencies operate in the dark where they belong. Or drop the agencies and act on nothing letting the goverment have no advance warnings or advantage over anything. Remember Intell is not a nice game and the nice players lose inthis game

9/11 Commission controversy

Pasadena — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:59:54 GMT

The Commission should know if you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

9/11 Commission controversy

Joe Canuck, Ontario, Canada — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:02:55 GMT

Interesting that only now is the real information behind the 9/11 incident happening. If people keep finding more things wrong with the obviously falsified 9/11 Report, then they will begin to really question the legitimacy of America's war.

9/11 Commission controversy

Nick, Tampa — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:13:15 GMT

Old news. Peace is hard to keep. Wars are inevitable, always have been. Queensberry rules don't always work. Society determines what is acceptable and what is not. Our society has brought this out into the open. Those that don't understand, first hand, the horror of war will take one side. Those that can afford to be idealists can take the other side. Somehow, the middle ground tends to prevail. Do the needs of the many outway the needs of the few? You decide

9/11 Commission controversy

FObrien Boston ,Ma — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:32:27 GMT

this artical clearly points out that the current administration condones treatment of prisoners in "extremely forceful manner"but don't call it torture.Duplicity reigns.Don't ask and we won't tell.

9/11 Commission controversy

Jay Michaels, Kalamazoo, Mi. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:45:43 GMT

Hmmm. The U.S. is supposed to treat battlefield combatants and domestic, non-citizen, fifth-column America haiters with love and respect.
As of 9-11, we have been at war with a faceless enemy, without uniforms or national identity, whose only wish is to kill Americans any way possible, without consideration of age, sex or military/civilian status.
We are in a struggle with an enemy that abides by no rules and gives no quarter. An enemy that executes their prisoners by sawwing their heads off with a knife. An enemy that is willing to kill, indiscriminately hundreds or thousands of whoever their enemy of the moment is, just to send a "message".
The methods of obtaining information from these people currently under our control seems very mild indeed. If out-and=out torture is required to make a prisoner divulge information that will prevent our country from being attacked or our soldiers, (and civilian citizens), from being harmed, BRING OUT THE RACK!

9/11 Commission controversy

David, Laguna, California — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:47:57 GMT

I find it a bit ironic that in the middle of our love fest, we forget the rapes, beheadings, killing of women and children and the many other barbaric activities that these types of individuals participate in. Imagine what your perspective might be if you had members of your family on the top floors of the twin towers during 9/11, or perhaps having your daughter sit in a car with a male friend on a quiet street in Saudi Arabia. I wonder how you might feel about having your sister, mother or girlfriend be the recipient of an honor killing by their own father or husband. I wonder how you might feel about these tactics if your son or daughter were captured and believed to still be alive.

One can only feel empowered to sit in your arm chair in the safety of your own home and still be able to question the very tactics that enable you to do so. I do not like war, I do not like torture, but I do support freedom and I respect the fact that it doesn’t come for free. Love alone will not enable us to enjoy what much of the Middle East as well as some other countries despise about the US - Freedom.

9/11 Commission controversy

Pia Marciano — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:48:18 GMT

While I agree with the point that torture can produce false evidence, I would also suggest that we lean towards common sense. For example, in all the press coverage of detainees' "rights" and the insistance on humane treatment, we seem to forget the horror and absolute savagery of 9/11. We forget over 4,000 innocent people slaughtered for no good reason. We also forget that the compatriots of these detainees behead people--after they torture them. I think that, despite the press coverage of detainees conditons and treatment, the average American knows we are dealing with people whose belief it is that to kill "infidels" gains them instant access to heaven and 72 virgins... Murder is their creed; why do we worry so for their comfort and good treatment. Their stated goal is to destroy every one of us. Who can forget Bin Laden promising to do just that? There is no shred of humanity, no decency or fair play. I would not be in a hurry to plead their cause; only be concerned that they lied and that tainted the 9/11 Commission's report. If we do not have the whole truth, that is in keeping with the entire war in Iraq. We were lied to then and it has cost us 4,000 American lives and counting. No one doubts who the masterminds of 9/11 were. If this report is inaccurate, I submit that "for reasons of national security" it would have been inaccurate and tainted in any case.

9/11 Commission controversy

Cynthia G — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:55:48 GMT

Bush and Cheney are war criminals.

9/11 Commission controversy

bob morris,san clemente,ca. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:59:06 GMT

maybe the c.i.a. should have just said pretty please when they are interviewing the suspects about what information they have concerning 9/11 attacks.

9/11 Commission controversy

Ken Kapp, Shorewood, WI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:03:02 GMT

After WW II and its horrors I'm amazed that the USA and CIA can still get away with torture and political "cleansings". Nuremburg held people accountable for their actions -- but now it seems as if that's only if you loose. War crimes committed by Bush, Cheney and Tenet et al are made to appear as acts of virtue. A really sad state of affairs.

9/11 Commission controversy

West Texan — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:05:24 GMT

The terrorist's aim was to destroy America. Nothing is more "America" than our values, belief in equal justice and belief in the rights of the individual. Cheney and Bush recommended the dirty work (torture) to the benfit of the terrorists.
That is when the terrorists won. Up until then, they didn't stand a chance.

9/11 Commission controversy

John Elliott, Lansing, Kansas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:14:31 GMT

How concerned are the reporters about the "method" of death of the 9/11 victims? A detailed report on that may clear up their misgivings.

9/11 Commission controversy

Lord anthony, Columbus Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:27:36 GMT

a nation ignores the rule of law and tosses honor the winds of diaster.have we come to this?

9/11 Commission controversy

Sammy, Spokane, WA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:29:10 GMT

I am sorry, but in a time and place where the enemy would gladly kill many innocent people because of their religion or their nationality I say we torture them! Get every ounce of information out of them, if they don't want to be tortured then tell them to open a store somewhere and start a normal life.

9/11 Commission controversy

Don Ford So Cal — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:33:45 GMT

Give me a break, my fraternity hazing was worse than what was described in the article. Remember these people (terrorists) are encouraged to lie to the infidels. It seems the American public seems to agree with me. Everytime the media tries to throw this boo-hoo sympathy on us, it is met with ho-hum, whatever, nice try.

9/11 Commission controversy

Herb Pendleton, Eugene, OR — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:37:34 GMT

This article is very troubling. The adage "Garbage In, Garbage, Out" is very true and in this situation, very troubling. At least in this area of the Commissions report, How can we believe the accuracy of the report. Additionally, it is natural to now question what other sources of information were compromised by the lack of access to the source.

9/11 Commission controversy

Dale Keller, Clarksville, Tn — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:43:52 GMT

Why does NBC go to such lengths to discredit our techniques in interrogation of terrorist. Al Qaida uses a simple method, cutting off heads. So NBC keep you left wing liberal views to yourself. I'm sure this will get deleted.

9/11 Commission controversy

C Mansfield, Winnipeg MB Canada — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:44:10 GMT

Is this suppossed to tell us something we did not already know? The US uses torture to obtain information, those who make use of the information know perfectly well it is obtained by torture, americans know that is how the information was obtained.. everyone turns a blind eye. yet if the process were reversed, and american were similarly tortured, it would call for another 'bomb the barbarians back into the dark ages!' campaign of moral indignation.
The whole international community is quickly growing very tired of American cruelty,duplicity, and corruption on all levels.

9/11 Commission controversy

John Hopper, Burlington, WI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:49:39 GMT

Mental and physical abuses and deprivations have been, and always will be, used to garner information from those unwilling to divulge the information they have. However deplorable or upsetting it seems to some people, these methodologies are effective. Our local law enforcement uses more tame methods, but the use exists. Too hot...too cold...too tired...uncomfortable...hounded...followed...these are all means to an end. If I have a secret that I don't wish to share, and if you give me three hots and a cot, call me sir, treat me with utter respect, make me as comfortable as is possible, and cater to my whims, you will never gain access to the knowledge you are trying to access. Interrogation techniques are not pretty, civil, or humane; they are effective tools for the most part. Only when they pass into the very pssible fear of death does the garnered information degrade.

9/11 Commission controversy

Gary Gunder Burley, Id — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:02:07 GMT

These people don't care who you are. Man, Woman, Child or A BABY. They will kill any and all if you are not one of them. Well, sometimes and often they have killed their own kind. They have no remorse for killing anyone. I say do whatever it takes to get the information that is needed to stop the attacks. Even if you have to neuter them.

9/11 Commission controversy

Jim Lambeth, McCormick, SC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:05:55 GMT

ahhh isn't it too bad he had tob be in a cell infested with mosquitos what about our prisioners who were beheded??? I have no meercey for any of these folks.

9/11 Commission controversy

mcstowy, Beltsville, MD — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:06:58 GMT

So basically, the 9/11 report relied on uncorroborated reports of alleged statements made under torture. They had no access to the persons who puportedly made the statements, nor those who claim to have obtained them. It is a meaningless document and it cannot be relied on.

9/11 Commission controversy

Ed G., Elizabeth City, NC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:10:55 GMT

Anything they do to Muslim terrorists who plan to attack the U.S. is justified.

9/11 Commission controversy

Hal, Washington DC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:14:20 GMT

Welcome to a world that does not play fair.
Not everybody loves the USA, in fact this group of people wants to destroy the USA and enslave or kill all the non-Muslim people carrying American passports.
If it is the human dignity and "rights" of an Al-QAEDA TERRORIST who wants to end my way of life and my freedoms and way of life then will recommend the Al-Qaeda subject dies for his crazy cause, since he does not think he has anything to live for anyway except "Jihad".
The writers are incredibly naive to think Al-Qaeda would treat our prisoners with dignity. Think we have seen that with the televised beheadings in Iraq and torture chambers of Iraqis in Fallujah, and the numerous other torture chambers places used by Al-Qaeda that our troops have found in and around Iraq and Afghanistan. But in your liberal leanings your article blithly ignores that doesn't it?
Have any of you liberals written an article surveying the blood stained walls and floors of an Iraqi torture chamber used by Al-Qaeda? No. Have not seen one article in 5 years. Would like to ask why not?
There US Marines found a couple of torture chambers of horror in Fallujah 3 years ago. So far not one word much less an article from the NBC press.
Questions NBC press should be asking:
Was the information timely in our operations against the Al-Qaeda?
Was the information reliable?
Did it aid in destroying or neutralizing Al-Qaeda?
Wake up! We are at war with a group of religious fanatics who want to destroy our way of life and enslave our non-Muslim population. To them revenge in a decade may draw criticism of being too hasty. this is why we must not ever drop our guard.
Last question to Mr Windrem, Limjoco, and Chang: are you pro-radical Muslims?
Your article sounds like it was written in Cairo around a Cairo University with radical Islamist helping you.

Hal

9/11 Commission controversy

Steve Bailey, Tucson, Arizona — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:16:56 GMT

Well, I for one, CERTAINLY wouldn't want to hurt ANYONE who took part in planning the deaths of 3000 Americans.

As an infidel, and part of the Judeo-Christian tradition, I simply as myself.."What would King David do?" Do you think he might lop off a few heads, fingers, hands, arms, until he got the info he needed? That would work for me.

9/11 Commission controversy

JOHN - PROVIDENCE, RI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:21:52 GMT

EXCUSE ME BUT WERE THESE PEOPLE NOT INVOLVED WITH THE 9/11 ATTACK? AND THEY'RE CRYING ABOUT A LITTLE WATER TORTURE? AND OUR GOVERNMENT IS EVEN LISTENING TO THEM? HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD? THEY'RE LUCKY TO BE ALIVE, LET SOME OF THE VICTIM'S FAMILIES AT THEM...

9/11 Commission controversy

Patrick North Port Fl — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:22:34 GMT

Torture, good question, is it a good thing or a bad thing, it's a bad thing, real bad thing, but so are the terrorist, they are really really really bad things, when you plot to terrorize you make that call on your own, TERRORISM has been going on for how long, and torture is nothing new, and torture will not stop, beleive me it will not stop, if you know someone has the information to stopping something awful, and I mean something awful, then torture him or her, yes ladies also, a terrorist is a terrorist, and if you don't have the courage or you think this is wrong then call me, beleive me it won't take but a couple minutes at the most for me to get the information we need out of them, water boarding, Ha, that's child's play, they will wish I did water board them, and when I am asked how did you get the information sooooo fast, I will say, AND I DID IT MY WAY. GOD BLESS AMERI, CIA, LOL, LOVE IT.

9/11 Commission controversy

George Brewster, Houston, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:26:49 GMT

When will these methods of attaining information be viewed ok? What will it take for the average American to say “do what ever it takes” Does our country have to be bombed before it’s ok? Is it ok after you or I lose our family, to people who play by different rules? How many people have to die before my fellow Americans wake up and stop standing in the way and let these brave men and women in the front lines do what it takes to win this war?
How many lessons do us as Americans need before we open our eyes? I say to all of you who have problems with this, wake up before what happens in Israel everyday makes it too this fine country! “ because these animals fear nothing from us” They want our total destruction on every level, and they don’t care if you are offended by their methods!

9/11 Commission controversy

Bruce C Dubey — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:32:49 GMT

Sickening. Disgusting. Shocking. Horrifying. Those are just some of the adjectives that come to mind regarding this administrations use of torture. Basically, Bush, Cheney, et al, are nothing more than war criminals and should be treated as such. Torture is immoral and provides little useful information, as testified to many times by our top interrogators in the military and FBI. Anyone who thinks this type of unacceptable behavior protects us and our interests is delusional. I sincerely hope that whomever is sworn in next January will instigate an investigation into these illegal, barbaric practices committed in our name, and punish all those responsible for these atrocities.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam and their ilk all had justifications for their crimes against humanity, too. This administration's rationalizations are no more excusable than theirs.

It seems to me that this information has already been publicized before, although some of the particulars or sources may be new. If true, it is good to have collaborating evidence. Regardless, this begs the question of how reliable is the 9/11 Commission report, since it is based on unreliable, unconfirmed sources.

9/11 Commission controversy

Robert Swindle, Daphne, Al — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:33:50 GMT

Thank God for CIA. Thank God our media is not there to protect us. When you have friends (like the Press) who needs enemies?

9/11 Commission controversy

pat — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:36:33 GMT

LMAO these terrorist dorks are lucky if waterboarding is all they get.. let me interigate them ill hang them by there scrotum and put em in a room haveing a mexican birthday party and they can use them as pinyatas

9/11 Commission controversy

Brian Ime, Eugene, OR — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:44:18 GMT

When properly corroborated, the source of the information reported by the 911 commission is irrelevant. Reporting the unsubstantiated claims of torture by the father of a detainee is bias designed to spin the facts. Waterboarding may seem inhumane when examining the world through the filter of the internet. I don't agree with it's wide spread use, but if it saves a single American life (and I believe it has) then the temporary discomfort suffered by those who plot to murder us is more palatable. Your editorialized reporting is agenda based and out of touch with reality.

9/11 Commission controversy

Concerned Citizen, Newport Beach, CA. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:45:39 GMT

Would any of these interrogation records be admissable as evidence in a court of law? It seems to me that these were forced confessions to say the least. The more I research 9/11, the more I find that relevant information was and is being withheld from the public and investigators. It's time for the people to demand full disclosure. As long as the gov't has nothing to hide, this should not be an issue.

9/11 Commission controversy

Joe Ruwe Santa Cruz, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:46:41 GMT

This is more evidence that the 9/11 Commission was incomplete in its investigation. We still do not know the full truth about the 9/11 attacks. Most of us know that information coerced through torture is not reliable, as experts like John McCain and others have stated.
Coupled with recent statements and op ed articles by chairman Kean and Hamilton, this article confirms the conspiracies ultimate claim: WE DO NOT KNOW THE FULL TRUTH ABOUT SEPTEMBER 11.

9/11 Commission controversy

9999 — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:46:53 GMT

It's not simulated drowning. IT IS DROWNING!Please tell it straight.

9/11 Commission controversy

Dean, Chicago IL — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:52:58 GMT

How then is the US to get information from suspected terrorist operatives? Let's face it, interrogation methods are harsh. So, then, what are the alternatives? All the critics out there, here is a chance to give input on what you believe is a better way to produce information that may save your life one day.

9/11 Commission controversy

rickschletty@hotmail.com — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:55:02 GMT

Nobody seems to say anything about the invaders who came to our shores on 9/11 and brought the destruction they did to Americans. And how many times and incidents around the world have we witnessed against not only Americans, but civilians everywhere? And we're the barbaric ones? How else are you supposed to fight an enemy who hides behind religion? Let the people do what they have to do to glean the information they need to protect us, short of out and out killing them. Would the enemy show the same concerns about us?

9/11 Commission controversy

Gene, Phoenix, Arizona — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:55:46 GMT

We need to stop second guessing the people (expert we trained) from doing their job, when will we understand there are no rules in a terror war. We need to be as ruthless as they are.

MSG U.S. Army (Ret)

9/11 Commission controversy

Trish Schiesser — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:00:26 GMT

I see no reason to end the CIA's form of torture. At least we are not beheading our prisoners and filming it for the world to see.
What a horrible way to die - what horror for Americans to see their loved one(s) have their heads cut off!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

Steve, Los Angeles, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:07:09 GMT

Define Torture:

Al Qaieda Prisoners: Extremely uncomfortable positions, stress, and sleeping arrangements.

US Forces in Afghanistan/Iraq: Extremely uncomfortable conditions, stress, and sleeping arrangements.

US Military Prisoners: Beheading, beatings, their privates cut off and stuck in their mouths and their bodies displayed.

It seems strange to me to want to protect the rights of those who hate and want to destroy you, while at the same time they want the rights that they are not willing to give to others applied to them? The liberal media seem to want to paint us as the terrorists, but if 9/11 is truly remembered, it was women, children, and non-combatants who were attacked without warning. In my mind, I would let them worship Allah and let God judge in the end if they were worthy. I don't think the extremists want to allow us that same freedom. The choice of this faction of fanaticism is "convert or die".

9/11 Commission controversy

Paul V. Battaglia, Wilton, NH — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:08:10 GMT

Our CIA does what it needs to get the job done.

What do you think other countries resort to when they need inforamtion? Their methods are far more crude and direct than our CIA, but this is a problem magnified out of proportion by the media.

Do not seek to undermine our CIA which is ultimately your goal. The media is not policed whatsoever, but you wish to impose your own view of accountability upon them which is Gestapo-like in nature, i.e, Guilty on all counts, always.

Were it not for the CIA we would be in more dire straits than we are presently. I find it detestable that some of the media like to second guess law enforcement techiques from the comfort and safety of their homes and offices. War is never pleasant, but a very ripe topic of attack against those who engage war. There are no answers to satisfy those questions asked of CIA, generals and admirals by the media or people totally opposed to violence....you KNOW that as well as do I. We will alwys have some form of war on earth though hoping and working toward peace should be pursued. Keep in mind that "total war" or "total peace" are extremes and are not to be expected.

I agree that some who live should die and some who die ought to live, but, can you give them life? No. Then do not be too quick to deal out a form of death to the CIA, in the name of justice fearing for your own safety or concluding that this agency has become a rogue. Even the very wisest among us cannot see all ends.

To quote Mr. Spock in "The Wrath of Khan": 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or of the one.'

Very Truly Yours,

Paul V. Battaglia

9/11 Commission controversy

David P. Gurtner — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:09:11 GMT

I am surprised that comments have yet to be posted concerning this most difficult subject matter. I expected quite a few, However, one has to suspect that perhaps many individuals may not want to comment out of fear. This is a very touchy subject and the information was delivered very well in this article.

9/11 Commission controversy

Chris Due,Pollok, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:12:16 GMT

These are people who blow up innocent people including women and children. Do we really care if the CIA roughs them up a little bit in order to extract vital information. The CIA have been doing things like that since they were inexistance. The complaints should be against the people who came over here and started their Jihad in the U.S.

9/11 Commission controversy

Dieter Meitz, Harrisburg, Pa dmeitz@comcast.net — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:13:44 GMT

Why are we so concerned about how the info was obtained? The animals who killed our people on 9/11
never ask them if they were ready to die.

9/11 Commission controversy

TK, Midland Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:18:00 GMT

I don't really care what they did to them. If any of them are still breathing, they weren't tortured enough.

9/11 Commission controversy

Dave, New Jeresy — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:21:21 GMT

Zelikow demoted Clark just prior to 9/11, he played a major role in the pre-emption strategy in Iraq and was part of the Bush National Security Transition Team. He was investigating himself, he was a MOLE, which the entire figure head commission aleady knew, and their silence is deafening, no body wants to look at who really pulled the string on 9/11, everyone knows the Truth would hurt to much and our veneer of a Good and Peaceful Country will be
removed. Why do people want change in this election year, it is because we all know, the Power Elite in this country needed 9/11 and the subsequent War on Terrorism for their political and economic power. The Corporate Media will not tell that story. 1984 has arrived.

9/11 Commission controversy

JOHN - PROVIDENCE, RI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:24:52 GMT

9/11 Commission controversy

Irving E. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:27:54 GMT

Let the government say whatever they want to the public, however , behind the scenes, the CIA must be allowed to do whatever is necessary to protect our nation.

9/11 Commission controversy

brd903@hotmail. com — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:32:41 GMT

if you or I tortured someone, we would be tried for war crimes. because of this, ALL of our troops are in danger of being tortured.
thanks for protecting us, Bush!

9/11 Commission controversy

Rose James, Skokomish Reservation WA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:32:50 GMT

When I read articles about high authorization of inhuman treatment to prisoners of war or abuse of war on our country's citizenship, to strenghthens my conviction that war should be against the law.

9/11 Commission controversy

Larry Arnold — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:33:07 GMT

How trite. You simpering idiots remind me of the British during the Revolutionary war; lining up in pretty ranks against hidden sharpshooters, all because it was the CIVILIZED thing to do. How utterly childlike and sheltered to think for a moment that our enemies will treat our people a bit better if we only play nice. If respect isn't offered, I will take fear every time(and my children will sleep safely).
Two items to contemplate:
Jimmy Carter,our worst (but warm and fuzziest) presidents in history was and b****-slapped by entities from Iran to OPEC. The DAY Reagan took office, we got our hostages back from Iran. They knew the new sheriff wasn't going to take a penknife to a gunfight. Respect and understanding boundaries; no more, no less.
Point two. Find a really bad and nasty and confront them. Tell them you are there to stop their criminal acts with a gentle touch and warm fuzzies. Prepare for the first of perpetual bad things happening to you until you either abdicate entirely or the nasty police step in and do unseemly (but necessary)things in your behalf.

Just remember, flock; the lambs can bleat and gambole all they want as long as the dogs are at work keeping the wolves off the meadow. Your freedom to pontificate and posture rests solely on the ability of dark and sometimes rude people doing a hard and nasty job that, from time to time, does not rise to Marques of Queenbury rules. Get over it Lambchop.

9/11 Commission controversy

Lorie Holloway — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:37:03 GMT

Why are Americans so ignorant of their own governments wrong doing? After all it's been going on from the get go. They have tortured, killed, Indians including women & children. They have used the general population as guina pigs too many times to count, and still to this day, we are sprayed with pesticides & God knows what else, that has'nt been safely tested properly. Now we also import food, that uses outlawed pesticides in this country, for us to consume. Why are you so shocked? Our water isn't safe to drink, yet it has the stamp of approval. Our pets now are getting cancer & other diseases from what we feed them, they don't get these illnesses in the wild. Unless we have polluted the land already.

9/11 Commission controversy

David Bernard / Griswold, CT — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:48:47 GMT

The article was very informative. It shows what our government did after 0/11 to get information out of prisioners. Our government should find other techiques to retrive information. Hurting people and lots of stress only invite lieing. The interr-gators should go in with background about the country or city before asking questions. How do we know anything is correct?

9/11 Commission controversy

MSG Will P USSF — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:52:22 GMT

Reading the responses I can see that most Americans don't see this as all that much of a big deal. Why? Because its not! NBC find a news story worth covering, like positive reports from BAGHDAD..The military is making progress and you hardly hear about it. WHY? News media is filled with graduates of our liberal universities. America is Great! love it or leave it!

9/11 Commission controversy

Willis Hill, Lebanon Oregon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:52:22 GMT

George Bush and Dick Cheney should be held responsible for these crimes of torture.

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Ron Ruston, Hubardston, MA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:52:32 GMT

Yeah, like Neil Young states, 'We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand!' Okay Hitlery.

War is war, ask the police on the street or undercover cop or a border patrol officer.

Torture of these detainees was justified!

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John Joseph, Bowling Green Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:03:15 GMT

Vote for John McCain. He will see to it that this torture of POWs is ended. As a former POW himself, he knows that the data from these methods is suspect. It makes us no better than the terrorists themselves. They want to bring us down to their level

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p.scialabba bullhead city az (bwanta@msn.com) — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:05:15 GMT

I would agree with the above mentioned mistreat-ment on bush and rice, if they were ever questioned on the real reason why they went to war. However I would not agree to more then 6 months of this kind of treatment. bush is such an
honest person, I doubt after six months we would
know the real reason.

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Bill Bramley, Indianapolis, IN — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:16:20 GMT

If those being questioned so strongly were true infidels and terrorists, they would have let the waterboarding take them to Allah. Obviously, like most of those terrorists, they were chickens and clucked to save their own lives.

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Bcss Boston MA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:22:22 GMT

While all the armchair generals tell you it's either them or us, there is a very great possibility that eventually the same tactics will be used on US as in We The People. That is why it's illegal. The geniuses who wrote the Constitution have had their laws tested over and over again. If torture was used to help in the war against terror then tell me why the war has become bigger and tougher than ever. ARE WE WINNING? Ask the families of our heroes who have a no child, daddy or mommy, handicapped, suicidal life to look to.

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Alan Manker, Kansas City, MO — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:23:22 GMT

The 9/11 Commission Is a JOKE.
I wish I could use stronger language but they would not print it.
Nothing but cover-ups and lies.
Research 9/11 and make your own decision.

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John — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:33:15 GMT

Wanted- Osama Bin Laden, Dead or Tortured. Who cares about terrorizing Terorist. Ask David Pearl about their tactics. Torture all of them. These are not US Citizens and they do not fight a legitimate war for any country. This is their personal choice to terrorize

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Charles F. Baird, Big Lake , Alaska — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:33:55 GMT

You reap what you sow. Eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You will get what you give. War is War, I'm tired of politians making rules for our people to fight under, but not for the other guys. How stupid is that. Why don't they just tie our boys and girls hands behind their back and say go get them. I wonder if the same politians that wrote the "Rules of Engagement" would be willing to fight for their country by those same rules? Our country is going straight to hell. We need to get rid of the politians in power and get some new ones that follow the constitution as it is written. Get out of these foreign countries and start taking care of our own. CFB III

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mark, Chicago — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:34:05 GMT

The reason why we should treat all POW's with dignity is simple: we don't want our own American servicemen and women to be subjected to torture when they are captured on the battlefield.

Anyone that has an issue with treating all POW's according to higher standards apparently has little respect for the safety of our own troops.

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R. Cubitt, Mobile, Alabama — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:37:41 GMT

You would recommend that we slap them on the wrist and say "can't we all just get along". I only read NBC propaganda and watch NBC media in the same way I watch Al Jazeera: to be able to see what our enemies would like us to see. It amazes me to what extent your type of media will go to thwart freedom here and in other countries.

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Randy Mitchell, OKC, OK — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:45:07 GMT

God I just love these conspiracy folks. What a hoot!

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Jon C, Toney, Alabama — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:47:33 GMT

Bless their little hearts and part of their little gizzard... We're mistreating the sociopaths again :(

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R. Bruce Walker, Archer, Florida — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:49:35 GMT

Is NBC upset that the CIA was able to obtain vital information which not only illuminated the events of 9/ll but also can save American lives down the road? If so, why? Wouldn't NBC be better served in seeking out information which could actually HELP in the recognition and detection of terrorist activity designed to kill us? I'm ashamed for NBC to realize that they actually endorsed this report and paid someone to print it. This is, once again, a case of liberal media attempting to "paint" a CIA success with tar and feathers. To use football as an analogy: when a halfback carries the ball, he has several team-mates blocking for him. Those blockers knock people down, with violent, and often injurious, results. When the halfback scores, his team celebrates....and rightfully so. No one on the team is concerned that an opponent got his knee injured, or suffered a concussion, in the process. Makes you wonder.....which team is NBC on???? Did any of the detainees die? Did any suffer permanent injury or disfigurement? Had the situation been reversed and had the detainees held the CIA captive, the detainees would have extracted the same information, but there wouldn't be any CIA folks left alive to complain about their treatment. Which team are you on, NBC????

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Phil Linville, Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:50:56 GMT

Mr. Dubey, or is it Doobie... Sickening, Disgusting, shocking, horrifying is the way I describe your obvious leftist attitude about what our country originally stood for. The main purpose of our Government is to protect us. Your attitude and others like you are why other countries laugh at us... They are just sitting back waiting for the right time to take over. That will be when people like you dominate our country. Well, hopefully that will be never. Please let the leaders in charge do what they know how to do...
Protect us... As far as I am concerned, you are as much an enemy as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam was... You justified their attrocities against there people... Why don't you go live with the Muslim extremists... I'm sure they would love to have you... You seem to love them...

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David, Colfax, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:53:21 GMT

The greatest tragedy of the modern age is moral relativism. How many people have died as a result of waterboarding, sleep deprivation, being too hot or too cold, or from being tied up? When you compare that number to how many have been found beheaded, with drill-holes, shot in the head AND dumped in the street, you CAN NOT deny that we're talking apples and oranges as far as torture.

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William Keim, Philly PA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:57:16 GMT

I simply cannot believe the comments I am reading here. Statements like "If they are still breathing, they weren't tortured enough." Are you serious? Retired Master Sergeants writing in that we need to be as ruthless as they are?

We are supposed to be the good guy. We are supposed to set the stage. We are supposed to act in accordance to international law and humanitarian principle (we helped write them for christ sake!).

Acting in accordance to the law is not a debate. We must adhere to it all the time, or none of the time, in which case, we are as bad as said extremists. So if you support murder, torture and illegal actions by our government, you are as unpatriotic and un-american as you can get. You might as well join the groups which you despise so much, cause your mentality is the same. You just think YOUR cause is greater, as with all extremists. Wake up, educate yourself and stop thinking American lives are more important than other human life elsewhere on our planet.

And if you think the 9/11 commission report is truth, than ask yourself, why did WTC7 fall at 5:20pm on 9-11 and not a single mention of it is included in the report? Now this? The admission of torture to build the story? You really think a government that is willing to torture subjects isn't lying to its people like dogs? Hahahaha!

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Steve S., Detroit, MI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:00:31 GMT

I have no sympathy for these tortured terrorists.
They have no sympathy for me or mine....Jihad says KILL ALL INFIDELS, well I say let's defend ourselves in any way we can. An eye for an eye ...

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Waterboard Themall, Houston, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:04:30 GMT

(Below someone believes we should pat these animals on the hand and say Bad! Bad!) Could this be the ranting of a JA-had member?
Because if this were an American who not only has witnessed the deaths of others (Twin Towers) those he loved (son, daughter) and had almost lost his own life by these animals! Would he still be touting this crap he calls an excuse to protect those who would just as soon kill a women a child just because they don't share his or her religious thinking.
This war is not about left or right! It is stopping a group who wants nothing more then our total destruction.
In this type of war you don't play by the nice guy rules! They don't work here; these animals will blow themselves up!
I have no sympathy for those that choose this or for those that defend them. You like them so much go to Israel and live in the Gaza strip! But because you live here in America you are insulated from all the evil they do!
Go to a VA Hospital and ask those men and women just how lucky you truly are that those fighting this war do what you could not; just so you can live here and rant to a website you truly live a sheltered life void of danger!

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R. Bruce Walker, Archer, Florida — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:14:18 GMT

A question for NBC: Who's side are you on???? Thank goodness for the men and women in the CIA who work diligently to protect us from the likes of these detainees.

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H Lindsey Eugene, OR howlin@winfinity.com — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:14:58 GMT

Hello Sixties 'left wing liberal losers'!
(Bush = POl Pot,Idi Amin??) Grow up. Read a history book.
Who do you think you're dealing with.

There are NO RULES! It's a WAR.
Yoy should be upset with Bush NOT being harcore enough. God Bless John McCain!

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Nero — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:15:24 GMT

Lorie, get a grip! Stop smoking the weed and try to understand the realities of the Muslum psychy. I'd bet that all you'd need was one day of imposed al quadi rule before you saw the light!

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Paul, Middletown DE — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:15:56 GMT

The left and some righties simply don't understand the absolute danger that terrorists represent. They will be only too glad to set off a nuclear device and kill millions of americans. This has nothing to do with George Bush, Dick Cheney or any other individual american. These are bad people, very bad people who terrorize their own countrymen, abjectly degrade women, sanction honor killings and live by a legal system more closely related to man's cave man days than to modern jurisprudence.How can any supposedly intelligent person even suggest that we are on their level. The terrorism will not stop with the election of our next president even if that president is the naive and pacifistic Obama. In fact our danger will increase if Obama is elected because our enemies know he has no stomach for a confrontation. Recall the great appeasers of the 20th century, Chamberlain bought "peace in our time" at the expense of 50 million dead in a war that could have been ended quickly if the western allies had faced Hitler down in 1938. Jimmy Carter mollycoddled the ultra wacky ayatollah Khomeni and we got 400 plus days of humiliation and american hostages being tortured. During the hostage crisis and sensing Carter's weakness a brutal attempt was made by another terrorist gang, the Soviet Union, to expand into Afganistan. Carter the appeaser set the stage for a good deal of the trouble that exists today. If "waterboarding" saves 1 american life at the expense of every terrorist life I am all for it.

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RapidR MN — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:15:58 GMT

OK, first the terroists did not aim to kill americans but to inflict pain to our goverment.People died because of our goverments efforts in the middle east.If the terrorists wanted to inflict pain to the american people they would have crashed the planes into football stadiums on football sunday directly effecting 300,000 people not to mention the football teams themselves.The real question here is that the CIA and FBI knew some of these terrorists were in this country why then did they not capture and torture them to find out why they were here? lie detector tests first (if faled) then the next level waterboarding next level start removing limbs with a butcher knife.Osama out smarted our elite CIA& FBI. did you notice in England they grabbed those terrorists long before they could board planes(the ones they planned on crashing into the ocean)If our CIA and FBI would have acted like those in England there would have been no 911.I think the appropiate departments who were out smarted are the ones who really want to torture now, to late you idiots secure are borders and watch who you let into our country.

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Mark C, Asheville NC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:16:30 GMT

*** Give me a break, my fraternity hazing was worse than what was described in the article. ***

If your initiation was worse than waterboarding then you should do some serious reflection on why you chose to befriend the criminally sadistic.

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Karl, Buffalo, NY — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:17:32 GMT

torture. illegal (geneva). 'nuff said (convention).

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ILUVUSA, WDC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:18:18 GMT

Tell the idiot 9999 if you are drowned you DIE, therefore the term simulated since no one drowned. Finally who gives a shaggy about terrorists anyway. Remember the be-headings of innocent americans by these butchers. These folks are alive to complain and we got vital information that has helped thwart additional attempts. Let the CIA do its job.

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TM Atlanta, GA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:19:12 GMT

If we don't waterboard how will we get the information to save American lives? If you are going to complain, then make a suggestion.

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R. Bruce Walker, Archer, Florida — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:19:32 GMT

Dear NBC:
Too bad you're not a newspaper or magazine, so I could cancel my subscription. No empathy here for those who want us dead, and would happily kill us if they were free.

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Mark C, Asheville NC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:21:59 GMT

*** I'm tired of politians making rules for our people to fight under, but not for the other guys...I wonder if the same politians that wrote the "Rules of Engagement" would be willing to fight for their country by those same rules? ***

You are a fool. The politicians interfering are the ones in the executive branch, advocating torture. Military men are on record as dead set against it, for a variety of reasons.

As for politicians being willing to fight under the same rules, why don't you ask John McCain, who led the fight against torture, or for that matter any veteran in Congress. They have, and would do it again.

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Will, Carson Nv. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:24:09 GMT

We must do something to protect America. If we had a weapon of mass destruction in America and a thug knew where it was, should we be liberal and just let it go off so as to not tread upon this poor terrorists rights? This may come as a shock, but we Americans are worth something too.

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Rose James, Skokomish Reservation WA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:27:18 GMT

When I read articles about our higher-up government giving authorization of inhuman treatment to prisoners of war or the abuse of war on our country's citizenship, it strenghthens my conviction that war should be against the law.

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Jon C, Toney, Alabama — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:28:18 GMT

I wish the liberals would start their own country somewhere else. Maybe rent space from California or something, I dunno. You guys could call it, "United Soviet Socialist of Californistan". I hear Baha is nice.

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John Tallent Pittsburgh Pennsylvania — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:30:16 GMT

I do not condone the work of these extremists. One must remember history however. How often has the CIA provided money, weapons and support to alter govermental power in the world .. ? In many of these situations, it turned on us. The Middle East is a typical example. We and they will pay for this for years to come. Also, religion is the curse of humanity ... it divides us and gives birth to extremisim.

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Bill, Utah — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:33:39 GMT

As the story stated, the CIA originally used these interrogation techniques (including water-boarding) to uncover plots planned for the future…not to provide evidence for what had already occurred. Because of these interrogations many more plots have been foiled and the terrorist cells captured or killed. Obviously, the information gained from those interrogations was very accurate and reliable. That is evident in the fact that we haven't had another successful attack in the United States since 911.

What happened on 911 is history. It serves no purpose to go back to place absolute blame on those who helped to carry out the plot. Stopping further terrorism, however, is a very worthy cause that should be pursued aggressively. If, during an interrogation, a terrorist admits to knowledge or participation in previously committed acts, then the information should be recorded, but not with the prospect of bringing these people to trial in mind. That is ridiculous, and only gives these people a platform from which they can convert others to their cause.

Throughout history, those seen as terrorists or paramilitary have been interrogated in whatever manner was most likely to extract valuable information from them...and then they were executed. It isn't that the CIA shouldn't be using water-boarding to get information that protects the American people...it's that they forgot to take care of the second part of the equation. Once we know these people are involved in plots to kill Americans and destroy the American way of life, they should be executed with bias and speed. There is no reason to convict these people of anything.

Anyone who has been to war knows that if you release a determined and fanatical enemy, they will come back to kill you or those around you. It is only those who are too squeamish and weak to fight for themselves and their country who will object to the harshest treatment of those who would destroy us and everything we hold dear. When the 911 commission asked for additional interrogations, the CIA should have told the commission that the prisoners had already been “released.” Did the CIA mess up? Yes. But only in that they didn’t finish the job.

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Adam, Houston TX — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:34:10 GMT

It saves lives. The torture of these individuals leads to the saving of American lives. Just because we treat an enemy with dignity does not mean it will be returned. I can't believe that the liberals in this country are going to pamper the same people who are cut off the heads of our soldiers and murder innocent civilians.

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Robert, San Bernardino, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:36:12 GMT

The support for torture of these detainees I found in these comments is disgusting. Doesn't anyone remember the presumption of innocence? It could very well be any of you in one of those cells, being heart-washed until you will do anything-say anything to make it stop.
We know such information is not reliable, and the methods used appear to constitute violations of international law including the Geneva Conventions.

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TJ, Martinez, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:38:40 GMT

Wow the American people are sick. How can you rationalize torture? It doesn't matter what they have done. If we sink to their level then how are we winning against terrorism? We are only establishing ourselves as top terrorists. That's a great way to beat Al Quaeda right? Just be worse than them. That solves all our problems, and their children wont hate us for it and become the next wave of mujahedeens. Right? Let's save American lives with potentially faulty information.

How about that old saying "Two wrongs don't make a right"? Did anybody else ever hear that one?

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JJ, NY, NY — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:39:12 GMT

NBC investigative journalism lol give me a break.
If you really want to investigate something. Investgate Zelikow and his relationship to the Bush administration and why he was still allowed to chair this commision. What a joke this all is. All orchestrated to keep these morons fired up and supporting your corporate criminal wars. And to all of you who support this kind of torture. Let them keep taking our god given rights from the United States Constitution away, under the guise of this fictional war on terrorism, & It won't be so funny when your own government is doing this to you and your family in the near future. And to GE, Oh sorry i mean NBC, Keep up the good work. Passing this crap off as investigative jornalism. It just goes to show how the lambs will eat up anything you dirtbags feed them. Robert Windrem and Victor Limjoco you should be ashamed to call yourself journalist. You are all complicite in this criminal conspiracy.

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Jim, Hamilton, MI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:39:23 GMT

I say whatever it takes to get the information from these extemists is A-OK. I am sure if someone had taken any of your(or my) wife and/or kids it would be OK in your(or my) mind to do whatever is necessary to get the info needed to get them back. These people are extermists and extreme measures are what is needed to make them talk.

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John Cantwell — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:39:23 GMT

Excuse me gentelmnen... but I really don't think the CIA is full of Marque deSades. The prisoners had the option NOT to be subjected to "extended interigation" any time they wanted. All they had to do is answer the questions. If they choose not to communicate with the CIA, were they not, in fact, asking for anything harsher questioning? If they were asking to be "abused", then they were complicit in the act and it was consentual. If it was consentual what is your complaint? If it was started without their consent, they could have stoped it at any point by answering the questions. I am a liberal but i certainly don't have a problem with this.

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james hayden — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:39:24 GMT

whose God agrees with torture? we are here but for a blink of an eye in eternity. God first, then family, then country.

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Michael Trefry, Clearwater, FL — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:40:24 GMT

I'm surprised the obvious question regarding this story hasn't come forward.

If the CIA was providing the answers to the 9/11 Commission, without the Commisision having direct access to the information, how do we know if the information even had a source other than the CIA?

I'm not one of those 9/11 Truthers, but it seems to me, that if the only source of information you have is the CIA, with no corroboration, that alone makes the information suspect. How do we know some guy at the CIA wasn't just making up the answers? This is an organization that specializes in disinformation!

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Sergio B, LC, NM — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:42:44 GMT

Bruce Entz is ashamed of America. You might as well leave, Venezuela will take you. Since America is everything from baseball, to apple pie with a slice of american cheese on it, to sports heros picketing because they want more money to play the game they supposedly love and our non-metric measuring system. This is everything America is great for, and you're ashamed of it. Ungrateful.

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Michael Trefry, Clearwater, FL — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:45:04 GMT

I wonder how many of these commenters who are advocating torture of (alleged, not even tried) terrorists, would claim they are Christians?
What happened to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

It seems that only the liberal atheist left are left to defend the teachings of YOUR Lord.

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JEFF LUNDSGAARD,ENTERPRISE MISSISSIPPI — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:47:26 GMT

IF AMERICAN SOLDIERS HAVE TO TORTURE 10,000 TERROISTS TO SAVE ONE AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIFE--SO BE IT. A SMALL PRICE TO PAY

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Wayne Honaker, USN(retired), USA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:57:39 GMT

Well, If you don't want to be tortured for being a terrorist, you should find a differnt line of work. If you are willing to do awefull things to others for YOUR cause, you shouldn't complain when we do awefull things for OURS.

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Jamie Rodriquez, Lexington, Oklahoma — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:04:00 GMT

Even if information obtained by torure was reliable-we know it is not-it is morally wrong. We will never defeat terrorists by becoming terrorists-that is what you are when you torture-no matter who you work for or how much you think it is your duty. Some of the comments are very disturbing-we need(?)to be as ruthless as they are? Interesting the reference to King David. So since King David may have done some limb-lopping thousands of years ago that is how we should proceed? These are the comments of the fearful. The Bush regime should be congratulated for their campaign of fear at home. I prefer "though I walk through the Valley of Death I will fear no evil." Of course this was long before Jesus. I do not remember him suggesting limb-lopping for those who tortured and killed him. So much for our Christian nation. So much for our Christian-in-Chief and his followers. Congratulations to all who were tired of peace and love-you now have the war and hate you wanted-and it may well be to the end of the Earth.

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Allen Boehm Clyde, TX — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:06:34 GMT

I am tiered of all the wimpering panzys. We are at war, the way we treat the detainies are civil compared to what the rest of the world does. So stop whinning, there is a good reason we have not suffered another attack. Wake up people, war is not a sanitary act.

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Davis Lexington, MA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:06:36 GMT

Hey Bruse - Christians, like the one's in the Crusades, aren't afforded the right to protect themselves! And what does pro-life have to do with waterboarding or anything in context with this article, how is the weather in left field pal...............

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cheli, Youngstown Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:16:05 GMT

I am really horrified by the comments of my fellow Americans regarding the acceptability of torture. What has happened to you over the last few years? I've been appalled by the violence of al Qaeda and others, but it hasn't made me believe in the efficacy or morality of torture. What is really unsettling about this is that I often get the feeling that people like me, who don't agree with these techniques, are seen as another enemy, not a fellow American with a different opinion who loves our country.

Thank you MSNBC for this valuable reporting.

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Jim S, Simpsonville, SC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:18:16 GMT

Is what we have to do (torture) to protect this country pleasant? NO. Would most be hesitant to perform these acts? Yes. Are they necessary? YES!

You MUST put yourself in this situation - you KNOW that the information you will get from any of these morons WILL save lives. Not just American lives, but civilians anywhere around the world.

There will always be those who would think we can TALK with this kind of enemy - you are foolish. You have no real idea how rotten a place this world can be with savages/morons like Bin Laden running around.

Having served our country I would do it again If I could. I've sent a number of slimeballs to "say hello to Allah". Do I regret it? Not for one second. I'm thankful, and so should you be - there are a few less that will attack and kill YOU or Your loved ones~!

The heck with waterboarding... take a bunch of them out on a Blackhawk (at 500ft) and start throwing them out one by one. Its usually the last ones that will tell you anything you want to know.

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Pat Pather, Charlotte NC — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:20:47 GMT

Hold on one moment, you so-called 'Protect America at all costs' motley lot. Don't you realize, if they can use it there, they can well do so here. What is to stop Bush/Cheney/Rice/CIA/FBI from marking you as a terrorism suspect (wire-taps, suspension of Habeus Corpus, etc) and hauling you in to be tortured?

It is how you behave under abnormal circumstances that shows true character! It is obvious that the current occupants of the White House have no character, given their support for things like torture.

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James Strickland, Glendora, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:21:03 GMT

This is in response to C Mansfield, Winnipeg MB Canada. First of all, I guess you wouldn't want to find out by any means what happened if someone flew a couple planes into your big buildings in Canada? Also, do you think the so-called "torture" was any worse than being crushed to death in a building? And lastly, didn't some of the terrorists enter the U.S. from your country? Oh, and one more thing, what has Canada done lately to stop terrorism?

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Gaston, Indianapolis, IN — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:25:03 GMT

Aren't we any better than Saddam Hussein by engaging in torture?

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Maggi, Idaho Falls, Idaho — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:25:56 GMT

Everyone knows we have a runaway government which isn't responsive to those it supposedly represents, as it manipulates public perception via the information/spin it chooses to release. It's all about politics, connections, and money (war materiel, Haliburton, etc.). To quote George Carlin, "Power does what it wants." I fear for our country and our countrymen, when torture becomes more and more accepted and widespread. (Are tasers a form of torture? Tasers kill people and are being used more and more commonly even in situations that don't warrant lethal force). What if it were you or a loved one being tortured? or should I say "when" it's you or a loved one . . .

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Phil, Whittier, CA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:30:17 GMT

Middle Eastern Terrorists are THE ENEMY.
We need to understand that if our servicemen/women are captured by Al Aqaida or any other insurgent group in Iraq, THEY WILL BE TORTURED AND EVENTUALLY KILLED. We need to continue to pressure the terrorists from all sides until they quit or die.

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DIANE PODLOGAR CHISHOLM,MN — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:30:48 GMT

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB YOU IDIOTS. DO THE RESEARCH. WTC7 FELL WITHOUT BEING HIT. WHY WAS NOTHING DO TO STOP THE ATTACK?
READ THE PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY. LOOK WHO SOME OF THE AUTHORS ARE INVOLVED IN THIS PLAN CHENEY, RUMSFELD, WOLFOWITZ,JEB BUSH, DAN QUAIL STEVE FORBES WILLIAM BENNET JUST TO NAME A FEW. THE FASCIST ARE REINCARNATED IN THIS GOVERNMENT. IF YOU TELL A BIG ENOUGH LIE ENOUGH TIMES THE PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!
INVESTIGATE THIS BIG LIE.

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Jack, Cambridge — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:35:31 GMT

It's time for a "Commission" to do a "Study" of the relationship between the constant barrage of negative criticism of our military by anti-American media and the increase in depression and suicide in the military. Hand a patriotic young American a gun, stick him in front of a murderous dog, and tell our soldier he's a criminal for doing what he must.

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JR, McKinney, TX — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:36:06 GMT

Next time some other country tortures an American citizen or soldier, what can we say? We have lost our moral high ground ..........

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youfoundjake — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:37:02 GMT

Stop tying the hands...let them do their jobs.

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J Johnson, Eugene Oregon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:42:11 GMT

I have no problem with paying the CIA to do some dirty work to keep America safe. We pay these people to do dangerous and secretive work, so that we can go to softball games, raise families, and not have a lock down state like many other countries. This liberal notion that people have the right not to be hurt is silly. Has anyone noticed that crime in this country has gone nothing but up every since the police stopped saying "halt or I'll shoot!" No one is doubting that torture and police shootings are bad... and innocent people do get hurt. However, if it means keeping some bad people out of my city, I say let the pros do their job and stop treating criminals like babies.

9/11 Commission controversy

Al Noblett — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:45:20 GMT

If Mr. Bruce Entz is so ashamed to be an American, maybe he should move to Afghanistan or Iran or, better yet, Korea, where I'm sure he would be able to enjoy all the liberties he wants (that is, unless he wants to speak his opinions freely or get a 40-hour-a-week job or own a house or car or, God forbid, eat!). It's beyond me how so many bleeding hearts feel so sorry for these poor, beaten-down souls who only want to kill us and our children and tear our hearts out. Other than that, they're really nice guys! By the way, this so-called "torture" technique of water-boarding used to be (when I was in the U.S. Army) part of our training. I had to endure it just to see what it was like and to see that it is very effective without actually killing someone or having any lasting physical effect. (And, by the way, if it so ineffective, as Mr. Dubey claims, why is it that several major terrorists plots were foiled and operatives apprehended based on information obtained in this way?) That, to me, is not torture. Hanging people on meathooks, beating them on the soles of their feet, tearing out fingernails, putting eyes out--that's torture. I hope Mr. Entz and Mr. Dubey and all those who feel so sorry for the "enlightened" Al-Quaida operatives sleep well tonight, knowing they still have their heads intact largely because, thank God, those of their persuasion are not (yet) in the majority. (By the way, Mr. Dubey--the word is "corroborating", not "collaborating". Your public education is showing!) One last shot. Mr. Robert "afraid-to-give-a-last-name" from San Bernadino (go figure): your comments were so over-the-top 60-s hippie-ish that, for once, I'm at a total loss for words. These guys are not American citizens and are POW's, which doesn't, in any sane person's view, qualify them for the "presumption of innocence" defense. Go back to smoking whatever it is you're using. (By the way, what, exactly, is "heart-washed"?)

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PKM chicago, il — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:47:38 GMT

The logic of many of the comments here seems to be something like: They are bad people and They do bad things, so we can too. This is the same logic that gained ground near the end of WWII, moving our country toward Total War and indeed even the 50 year nuclear standoff. Either you stand for something or you don´t. Does America stand for the moral high ground as described so beautifully by the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution or does it not? Simply stating arguments that amount to the ends justify the means is not enough. Didn´t your mother teach you about not following your friends as they jumped off of a cliff?

The atrocious grammar and spelling shown by many of the worst offenders of reason here is torture enough.

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JC, Larchmont, NY — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:50:34 GMT

The problems with waterboaring are that it works, quickly, leaves no visible marks and might help the administration win the wat against terrorism.

9/11 Commission controversy

aaron rayno, rochester, ny — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:54:39 GMT

Welcome to the real world people. It is cold and dangerous out there. It is unfortunate that people have to do these things to others, but that is the nature of life in the age of terror!!!! deal with it!!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

M Freeland Indiana — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:59:53 GMT

I am just completely beside myself, that there are people, that actually think that we should just allow terrorists to kill ANYONE because they want to. Are you people insane? Thousands of Americans were KILLED on 9/11, not to mention the Americans that have been raped, tortured and beheaded by terrorists. Are you people actually "BOO-HOOING" for these terrorists? If they were tortured, no matter what they did to them, it wasn't enough, as far as I am concerned. And, if any of you "BOO-HOOERS" think that this is not the Christian thing to do, then you're nuts, and you better study harder, because that roll over me attitude is why this country is going to hell, now. If you don't like it, then get out of 'our' country, since you happen to be afforded that right, from the blood shed by many Americans, that have fought and died to allow you to have it.

9/11 Commission controversy

TP,Hauppauge, NY — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:01:29 GMT

Geneva Convention was never signed by Al Quaida
so it has no relevency in their treatment not to
mention (common sense) they would never abide by it. (nuff said)

9/11 Commission controversy

J.Weaver , Houston, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:01:48 GMT

Blessed are those who see the need ,recognize the respondsibility and actively become the answer.
We are at war . It is an idealogical difference.
Get out of the cocoon you live in and see the ideaology for what it is.
We didn't bomb the World Trade Center!

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M. Kan, Seattle, WA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:04:38 GMT

The US State Department protested that the US should be left off the list of nations that torture. The truth hurts. We support torture. Our AGs refuse to disavow waterboarding, a practice against the US Military Code of Justice. Cheney finds torture very useful because it provides "actionable intelligence". The false confession that Powell used at the UN. Various false alarms sent the FBI on wild goose chases. "Useful". And false.

I pointed out to a torture supporter that McCain was against torture. I was told that McCain understood the "effectiveness" of torture because he broke under it. How, I asked, is a false confession useful? No answer. But the answer may be found in right-wing saying that it is only fear that makes Democrats do the 'right' thing. Goering pointed out how any government can lead people to war by using fear. Goebbel said that truth was the enemy of the State. Truth is indeed the enemy of a State that rules over it's people with lies.

Torturers won't stop until they hear something they believe. They need that 'truth' to be really scary to justify what they do. The result is a sum of all fears, the fears of those who ordered the torture, the torturer's fear of prosecution unless a 'truth' is found to justify torture, and the fear of those tortured. All the boastful torture supporters can be broken with torture and made to confess to being al Qaida operatives. A story can be constructed that "could" be true. Since they can be denied even being charged, there will be no way to verify the story. They would help construct the story even if it meant setting themselves up to be executed. That this can be done is why tortured confessions cannot be trusted.

Torture isn't wrong simply because it's "mean". It's wrong because it corrodes the basic premise of our Constitution which is that we have rights simply because we exist. We've become hypocrites when we tell others not to torture. It's wrong because it is used to coerce people into wars and other actions based on fear not on truth. It's wrong because of the perverted argument that says we must be no better then terrorists. They use terror, so should we. Under that reasoning, since criminals use rape and murder so then should our cops. Rape, murder and torture by the State are elevated to being noble actions that citizens may not question.

Lashing out in fear isn't going to win the war on terror.
It's going to take courage.

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Tt, Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:07:43 GMT

wow..... no wonder our country is in shambles..
morons are leading the way towards EVERYONE'S demise!

People lie under torture. it's human nature to say/do anything to make pain stop if it becomes unbearable.

on top of that, not every muslim is a "terrorist". it seems these days u can label anyone with that word and it makes it ok to torture them for information that you THINK they have. .....Thats like the russan mafia abducting someone, then telling them: you did it, we "know" you did it and we want information that we THINK you might know so were going to beat you until you give us your confession...

I never thought there would be a day when the United States of America, turned communist. what a sad time it is.

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aaron rayno, rochester, ny — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:09:33 GMT

I find it funny that "the liberal atheist left" (in the words of Michael Trefry) keep bringing up religion to help thier point. I wonder if they understand that people have souls. So thier judgement is in the here-after. The state does not have a soul, and it's judgement is here and now.
I am entertained by liberal's like Mr. Trefry. They would be offended by a christian bringing faith into this same conversation....oh the irony!!!!!

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Gordon, Salem, Oregon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:14:37 GMT

I moved to Southern California in the mid 1980's. I was from Oregon and had been raised with guns and hunting throughout my growing years. If I made the mistake of telling someone in So. Cal. my views on gun ownership, I was shot down - to say the least. Then the Richard Ramirez incident occured. Gun sales hit an all-time high and people who had railed on me for my conservative views were now appologizing and getting guns themselves.

Before you decry what we may or may not have done to people who would just as soon shoot you as give you the time of day, tell me how you have dealt with the terror when it is at your door -- attacking your wife and children.

I have little mercy for cold-blooded killers. I have endless patience for bleeding hearts. It only takes a little time before you or your loved ones faces humanity at its worst. Tell me how you handled it after you have faced it.

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Allen Pierce, Houston, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:20:14 GMT

I have been greatly disappointed by the average attitude of the american society about this war. Those men and women are your neighbors, cousins and fellow americans. Have we forgotten the thousands of families destroyed by the cowardly actions of this Taliban. CIA, DEA and other goverment agencies protecting our national interest.I say "you go boy" Do what ever it takes.

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Daqn Prohonic — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:22:15 GMT

It wasn't in the commissions mandate to investigate the techniques utilized by the C.I.A.,F.B.I.,or military to extract information from terrorists captured after 911.This is not a war,911 was an act of heinous extremism perpatrated by religious zealots,who are bent on eliminating Americans and anybody else that they hold in contempt.911 was just the start,and the only thing that keeps it from happening again is eternal vigilance against terrorists wherever they pop up,through efforts of our troops,F.B.I.,and C.I.A. and all other intelligence organizations doing their jobs in extreme conditions,locales,hazards,and environments.These terrorists do not have any rights as we know them,they ask for no quarter and they give none to our citizens or troops.
The news media likes a good story,especially if they can throw stones,they cry the loudest when one of them is injured or killed,they're not saints or even a close also ran.They accept no responsibility in regard to our troops risking their lives to protect them,but hang them out to dry before knowing the full story.They give comfort to the enemy by biased reporting,by printing or reporting troop movements,like Geraldo.They can be at times beneath contempt,by failing to report a complete story or substituting innuendo,voice inflection or their own personal opinion.They ask questions that aren't germaine to the story and don't ask questions that they should.When they become bigger than the story,they belong at the bottom of the barrel with the lawyers.
We can't stay here in this wonderful country,with our heads buried in the sand,they won't let us.They have declared jihad on us and they did it while Clinton was president,they killed American sailors on the U.S.S.Cole,embassy employees in several African nations,Americans working in Saudi Arabia and others.The C.I.A. had several opportunities to take out OSAMA BIN LADEN but Clintons white house said NO.We quite possibly could have been able to eliminate the hiarchy of al-Qaida,while Bill Clinton was in office and maybe eliminate the threat of 911 and future problems with al-Qadia but bill was too busy with Monica.Clinton basically castrated the C.I.A.and other intelligence agencies and negated their efforts to protect this country and left us with the 911 aftermath.The 911 commission should focus on 911,its causes,the reasons,the people who did it,why our intelligence community did not have the wherewithall to find and eliminate the actors,and where we should go from here.
We can thank the present administration for doing what it did,when it did so that we have not experienced any repeat performances here at home
You people should wake up,FREEDOM ISN'T FREE,it is paid for by the spilling of blood by its citizens because only then do we wake up,by its soldiers who are called upon to make the extreme sacrifice and hopefully by its enemies who hopefully will realize they picked on the wrong people.

9/11 Commission controversy

Mike McCulley, Allen, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:26:03 GMT

The question is right out of our own Bible. Should we believe in the old Testament saying, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"? Or should we follow the New Testament, "Forgive your enemies", "Turn the other cheek". It seems that most Americans believe in the old Testament vs. the New Testament way. Yet....we are a "Christian" nation. Hmmm, WWJD?

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Mike McCulley, Allen, Texas — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:27:12 GMT

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Jeremy Denver — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:28:39 GMT

RapidR MN - that statement is the dumbest thing I have ever read on any blog. You are a moron of the highest order. Do you tatoo your phone number on your hand in case you get lost?

9/11 Commission controversy

Jay Seattle WA — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:32:17 GMT

Bruce E. if it is so shameful to be an American there is a solution to that problem. May I suggest moving to the middle east? I'm ashamed of you being a fellow countryman.

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G. Spiotta — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:35:22 GMT

And the only country to ever use weapons of mass destruction is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! USA

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Erv, Chicago, IL — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:46:10 GMT

If we stop getting all of the information possible to protect ourselves I hope its the ones opposed to using every effective means possible that are victimized by our lack of intelligence.

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Bob Pena Garden City New York — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:50:26 GMT

If torturing prinsoners that are affiliated with
Al Qaeda stops future acts of terrorism
SO BE IT!!!! I love when the liberals state that
we should be ashamed of ourselves and if it was
done to us we would go after to them.. OPen your
eyes up ..They tortured over 3,000 people and their families on 9/11 .. Don t worry about us
I still think they hold the RECORD!!!!!

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Crystal W. FTW TEXAS — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:53:46 GMT

TO: karl ny, mark chicago, lorie (what the hell are you seriously talking about), 9999 (chickensh$t, couldn't even use your real name), c mansfield canada and bruce in ks.
God Bless America and the brave men and woman that fight for our freedom day in and day out! It's those men and woman that put there life on the lines so that assholes like you can sit here in your warm cozy houses/offices and talk shit. Screw the ohh so mistreated terroist, never mind the thousands of innocent lives that were taken abruptly. The CIA should do what the CIA does if it includes torture so be it. Obviously, the other side doesn't play by the rules...ie NICK BERG. The government needs to unite as one instead of trying to point fingers at every department other than there own. It doesn't surprise me that NBC is reporting this. I guarantee if the war affected you personally you wouldn't be writing and thinking what you currently are. I am proud to be an American, I certainly don't stoop to low levels as you suggest (bruce), neither do our troops. I am more than positive ya'll are the same people that complained and had Merry Christmas changed to Happy Holidays b/c Merry Christmas was just to discriminating. Layoff the men and woman who put there lives on duty everyday so that you may keep your freedom every morning.

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JOHN HELVIE, MIAMI, FL. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:55:02 GMT

I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TORTURE TO OBTAIN INFORMATION TO SAVE THE LIVES OF AMERICANS FROM ATTACKS LIKE SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001.

I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT WATERBOARDING IS NOT TORTURE, AS IT HAS NO LASTING PHYSICAL AFFECTS. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT TORTURE IS, ASK JOHN MCCAIN ABOUT HIS TREATMENT BY THE N.V.A. AND ITS SOLDIERS.

AS ANYONE HELD IN A FOREIGN POW CAMP, AND THAT IS TORTURE. WE HAVE BECOME A NATION OF LIBERALS WHO WANT TO CODDLE CRIMINALS AND TERRORISTS. WE HAVE BECOME A NATION WHO FEELS LEATHAL INJECTION MAY BE CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT. WHO CARES IF A CONDEMNED PERSON IS IN PAIN WHILE BEING EXECUTED, THEY WILL BE DEAD SOON ENOUGH ANYWAYS

9/11 Commission controversy

John Doe II — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:55:59 GMT

Waterboarding is slow, controlled drowning:

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/images/2007/07/20/waterboarding.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

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Mark Gressman Clyde , Ohio — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:58:33 GMT

After what they(terrorist) done and what they want to do to our people of all religions,race and their property and property that belongs to all US citizens you want to give them all these
rights!!!!!!!!!! You have a problem. I'll name a couple of them . 1 you never lost someone you love ....your stuck on yourself.2.my guess is your having an affair . you don't care about yours or their families. your Mr. /Mrs./whatever rightous until it effects you. GO GET A REAL JOB!!!You threaten my family , waterboarding will be your vacation day.

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MAD AMERICAN, MIAMI, FL. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:00:46 GMT

Does anyone know why the largest, most deadly terror attack n the history of the world took place in the USA?

Because all of you whiney liberals. Every male member of my family, including myself have faught in an armed conflict for the last 5 generations, and we are all sounding in support of torturing liberals.

i personally dont care if we torture terrorists and other criminals, I truly think we should torture illegal aliens AFTER they have been sent home once, and return.

9/11 Commission controversy

Rene Gonzales San Diego, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:05:24 GMT

What do paper-pushing burocrats know about fighting terorists. I have no problem with the CIA Torturing terrosists or even killing them by torture, as long as that keeps me an my family safe. When did we start caring more for a group of savages than for ourselves, this has become ridiculous. To the CIA I say do WHATEVER you need to do to keep us safe, if that means waterboarding Alah loving towelheads DO IT, and when you get the info you need KILL THEM.

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Dave Wellman — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:10:41 GMT

I should know better by now, but I still find myself amazed by the sheer ignorance of some people. The assumption of guilt used by those who seek to justify torture runs completely counter to the most basic of American sensibilities. Every Muslim we torture convinces other Muslims that we are the demons that the jihadists would seek to portray us as; every innocent that we incarcerate and torture serves to spur on thousands more to take up the banner of anti-Americanism. Despite our complete abandonment of our ideals in the pursuit of the terrorists, we have made little concrete progress, but we have alienated millions. This entire matter could have been handled so much better, but it's far too late now. We have sown the wind; we shall reap the whirlwind, and it will be called justice.
Reading some of these comments, I'm frankly disgusted to realize that some of these people are my fellow countrymen. I find many of your attitudes very similar to Nazism.

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headhoncho, las vegas, nv — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:13:53 GMT

What kind of a moron would be sooo concerned about the methods used to get the information we need? I say torture them with impunity...and keep it up, since the info we may get could save our soldiers' lives. This is war and crap happens in war. Go after the terrorists with everything we have!!

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Dave Bruhn, Denver CO — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:14:14 GMT

Give me a break! Torture? I was a Naval Combat Aircrewman and I have been waterborded, Thrown into the hole. Boxed in a 4x4 wooden box for hours and beaten with rifle buts in the abdomin. This was training to prepare me for capture. In every war since signing the Geneva Convention (which applies only to legitemate combatant nation troops, we have been the only ones to abide by it.

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Mike Z., Sacramento, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:16:06 GMT

One must remember, these people ARE NOT POW's, they are terrorists and criminals who have no regard for innocent life. They will kill whoever they like to forward their warped cause. The Geneva Convention rules cover identifable military POW's. Those rules have no bearing on terrorist, period.
Thank God we have people willing to step forward and protect our great country and its citizens regardless of the critizism.

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J. LUNDSGAARD,ENTERPRISE,MS — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:19:48 GMT

HOW MANY POLITIANS HAVE SONS OR DAUGHTERS FIGHTING OVERSEAS? I WOULD BET NONE. REMEMBER THE MILITARY IS VOLUNTARY AND EVERYTHING POSSIBLE SHOULD BE DONE TO PROTECT THE SOLDIERS LIVES THAT PROTECT YOUR FREEDOM SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY FAMILY OR FRIENDS THAT ARE COURAGEOUS ENOUGH TO JOIN YOU NEED TO SIT BACK, SHUT UP AND LET THE PROFESSIONAL DO THEIR JOB--WAR IS WAR AND YOU NEED TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO WIN--KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CIA

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Bruce Forbes, Pensacola FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:23:22 GMT

I have no hard feelings about killing an enemy and using force to protect the homeland. However, using torture to get information is a simple way to get someone to say what you want or expect to hear. It comes to a point where the tortured will say anything to stop the pain even for a little while. This is a difficult call for any nation. We must do something to protect our families and secure our future. If anyone has a better idea with proven results lets get them published and implemented. This article (the media) is one of the checks and balances that keep this nation free. If we don't question ourselves we become dogmatic and just as blind to the truth as we think our enemy is.

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John Doe, Reno, NV. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:27:31 GMT

It seems that there are two opinions on the subject. The international community says that what we do is immoral. The American community says "do what it takes". My own view is "Do what it takes". If they are willing to murder ten of us, murder 100 of them. Make the idea of attacking innocent people so ghastly, that they don't even consider it an option. This solution has two benefits. One, countries harboring terrorists will quickly denounce them, for fear of retaliation against themselves. Two, with everyone no longer willing to support their actions, terrorists will find their mobility limited, and their effectiveness decreases exponentially. The international community finds torture, and extreme interrogation techniques detestable, only until they are the ones under fire, and then the tune changes quickly.

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Zach — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:31:33 GMT

"torture. illegal (geneva). 'nuff said (convention)."

Was said the first post of this second page.

Might want to actually read the Geneva Convention before you state that the Geneva Convention makes something illegal.

... or at least read the part that explicitly states, in a few different ways so there is no mistake, that those who do not follow the Geneva Convention and/or are not part of a uniformed military force belonging to a nation that has ratified the Convention... those people explicitly have no rights under the Geneva Convention.

To be covered by the Conventions you must fit in this group:

- that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates
- that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance
- that of carrying arms openly
- that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war

Furthermore - Mercenaries are directly not covered. Terrorist is a more negative term to describe the same type of person.

Art 47. Mercenaries

1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.

2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

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Kathryn Fowler Williams, Whitewright, Texas. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:37:38 GMT

As a journalist myself, I find your reference to David (I believe you mean Daniel) Pearl disgusting. Mr. Pearl was an example of everything that is right, and by that I mean good and moral, about America. And I believe he would be horrified that you would link him with those who advocate torture.
You talk about those we tortured as having no human value because they killed innocent women and children. How many innocent women, children, and men for that matter, have we killed, or caused to be killed in Iraq in the very name of democracy. That's in Iraq, a country that was not in any way involved with the bombing of the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, despite that wretched country's former leader's other brutal crimes.
One of the writers suggested that the president get together with the other leaders and get them to stop torturing. That already happened. It's called the Geneva Conventions. We agreed to them, our president signed them and our Congress confirmed those treaties. Our military does not use torture and our commanders of all military branches support the conventions — all of them. President "Mission Accomplished" should be investigated for War Crimes as a suspect in authorizing torture in contravention of the Geneva Accords.
I applaud NBC for exercising its First Amendment rights. Our Constitution is not a self-enforcing document and must be constantly exercised to remain intact.
And I applaud each of you for vigorously using your First Amendment rights in responding.

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JLW, Daytona Bch, FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:41:57 GMT

I don't know why everyone is so concerned how well we are treating "terrorists". They are terrorists for Pete's sake, how else should they be treated? When people are imprisoned in their countries you won't see their government and news reporters saying "Gee, we should make sure they aren't getting tortured." Besides, when you think that our entire country could have been minutes/days/months away from another attack and those prisoners are aware of that situation, it is our duty to do what is necessary to protect our citizens. On one last note, if anyone is concerned on the validity of the prisoners testimonies, um well I'm pretty sure that if they want to lie, they're not only going to but they were probably trained to do so. Lets not be so self righteous and "correct" and not forget who it is that we are dealing with.

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Vicki, Fairbanks, Alaska — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:43:22 GMT

In reply to this remark from Bob of Anchorage: "I beleive that any agent of the government should be allowed to do WHATEVER it takes to protect the US citezens. No other country tries to play by the silly rules that we do. This is what makes this country weak and getting weaker!
Bob, Ancchorage, Alaska (Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:04 AM)"
You certainly have a lot of Faith in the Government, Bob. That's a bit disturbing. THINK of the implications. Has History taught us nothing?

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RoaringPurpleEagle, Conshohocken, PA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:43:46 GMT

All of you morons that say "Let them torture, let them do whatever they have to do to protect us," answer this series of questions:
1. Everyone says we should torture when we have reason to believe the person(s) to be tortured have information which could save American lives, right?
2. How certain do we have to be the person(s) to be tortured have the kind of information that justifies torture? 90%, 75%, 51%, or, like Dick Cheyney must have been thinking when he developed the "One Percent Doctrine," isn't it true that there is no room for error - - if we have any slight shred of a belief that the prospective torturee knows something important we have to torture to make sure!
3. If waterboarding might help in such situations - - that is in torturing every individual we capture who we think has the remotest chance of having life saving information - - why, by the same logic, shouldn't we pull out fingernails, put people on the rack, burn them with cigarettes, torture their children in front of them? Aren't we Americans entitled to our safety?
Sleep well until you meet your maker, you degenerate lovers of violence.

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Brian F Portland Ore — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:47:49 GMT

Graet article Bush Cheney war criminals - hardly were they not the ones who brought this issue out of the closet. Pres Clinton on the other hand only ordered renditions Is he therfore a super war crimonal ?

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JLW, Daytona Bch, FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:51:10 GMT

To this William Keim, Philly PA fellow. Are you serious? No one said our cause is greater. If you remember, those "terrorists" attacked us. We did not instigate this. Osama or whoever else decided that their cause was greater than ours. We were simply defending ourselves, and trying to put a stop to future attacks by bringing down the ones responsible and their brigades.

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Gene'O McQueen — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:51:50 GMT

i am not against torture, but--- i would reccomend that we torture to the extent of their involvement, "their" being the so said culprits, and i would have every "culprit" witness the techniques so as to soften their will, but after watching loosechange911.com and ctc411.com (all the worlds a stage) i wouldnt torture anyone but maybe congress, the house of reps, the Supreme Court, and the president of the United States of America. i would like to know just what the phuk is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Gene'O McQueen, Vienna Missouri — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:56:15 GMT

i know "you" just singled my response out due to threats made to our government, but seriously, watch the two sites i referred to. things do add up.

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Jason Chapman High Country, USA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:59:32 GMT

I hope that on that day, all of the people who were
involved with the torture, would be given the same
torture as they gave to there captives.

9/11 Commission controversy

Born in the USA Pennsylvania. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:59:59 GMT

I feel the US should do what it has in order to provide for the security of our fine country. There are far too many bleeding heart libs in this country. Al-Quada doesn't have any problem killing innocent people in the name of "alah" why would anyone complain or even release the methods used in gaining information that may be used to save even a single person with the hopes it may prevent it from taking place. People, we must preserve our nation (whatever the concequences) or we will no longer be able to enjoy the many freedoms we have. You then wouldn't be permitted to pray to "your" gOD, You would be forced to pray to someone else's. What kind of religion glorifies the slotter of mankind? I can only think allah must be another word for satan. Untill you have had to fight for your life or the ones you love don't cry cruelity!

9/11 Commission controversy

Pinole, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:03:34 GMT

It is true, they mean us harm...and some of them ARE guilty of crimes against us, but giving in to an "eye-for-an-eye" response leaves us both blind. To sink to the level of embracing terrorist tactics makes us terrorists too.

9/11 Commission controversy

Garry Nichols, Virginia Beach, VA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:10:59 GMT

Torture has existed for centuries upon centuries. Get over it people. If this what it takes to keep these obscene acts of terrorism off our (American) soil, then so be it. If the terrorists can "play" by thier own rules, which by the way there are no rules in terrorism, then lets return the favor. If this is what it takes to get information, then let the CIA operatives do thier job. Move on people, let us worry why teachers, cops and firefighters aren't being paid enough. Let us worry about how our children are going to be "our future".

9/11 Commission controversy

Mike Tampa, FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:34:28 GMT

Shame on you NBC and the rest of the American news media...I am proud that we have intel operatives and they will do what it takes to get the info they need to protect scumbags such as yourselves. I only hope that they go further!!!
I am disgusted at your Treasonist ways!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

byrd027@gmail.com — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:34:56 GMT

How many soldiers and Iraqis have died since we invaded Iraq to get their WMD's, oops, I mean nuclear weapons, sorry, I meant regime change. Heck, let's tell everyone that we're spreading democracy to and Christianity to the Middle East. It seems obvious to me, if this is the information we got through torturing people, that we need to investigate the leadership of this country as to why they invaded Iraq instead of pursuing the true perpetrators of September 11th.

9/11 Commission controversy

jeff, toronto, ohio — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:37:39 GMT

You people are extremely gullable. Do you really think they the government would allow the media to put top secret stuff out in the open. Whatever we read, pretty much the opposite is happening (reverse Psychology). One time the news said the President was coming near my town. Turns out, he was over 700 miles away. The media is ther way of throwing us off. That is the truth. I'm not saying how i know. We'll leave it at that.

9/11 Commission controversy

MH, Mcallen, Tx — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:41:44 GMT

Right or wrong, I don't know, I'll let God be the judge. I am an American, of Mexican-Spanish descent. I would do anything to defend this country that I love. Beneath the color of my skin lies a red-blooded American. What would you, my fellow American, do to defend your country, with all it's liberties and benefits you enjoy? What would you do to prtotect the life and well being of your wife, husband, brother, sister, son or daughter? How about your mother, father? Long live the Red, White, and Blue!!!!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

William Pitt — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:43:12 GMT

Our founders believed in individual rights, justice, and limited government. Those principals helped our country become a world leader. We’ve used our leadership to improve the rights of individuals in our own country and around the world.

Now we are arguing about the use of torture. Torture is quick, easy, cheap, and effective. There is no doubt that we can find and train legions of men and women to develop even more effective means of torture.

If we accept torture we will lose our leadership position, the war on terror, and perhaps even our own liberty.

Can we ask or demand that other countries refrain from using torture if we use it ourselves? Will our allies continue to help us fight the war on terror by passing on information or handing over suspects? Once we lose the moral support of the rest of the world and the cooperation of allies how long will we be able to fight the war on terror by ourselves? After our government learns to use torture, how long before it finds an excuse to use it against its own citizens?

Torture is easy, cheap, effective, and quick. The alternatives are more expensive, take time, and require effort - but the alternatives can be equally effective.

We should not accept the argument that torture is necessary in order to protect our country. We should demand that our government find effective ways to protect our country that don't require the use of torture. Our government will deliver what we demand. If we allow them to take the easy way then they will. If we demand effective defense without torture then they will find a way.

I have every confidence that we can stick to the principals of our founding fathers and protect our country. If we do then we will win the war on terror, the willing support of our allies, and the respect and admiration of countless individuals around the world.

9/11 Commission controversy

sitruc mot,everywhere — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:24:06 GMT

what gets me is i don't know where i stand on this issue of torture. i watched a woman, on live tv, falling from the top of one of the towers that day. i saw most of it. wasn't even there. made my kids watch it. they remember, still.
what if the information they had could prevent another attack? one that might involve me or mine? or you and yours?

i have no idea what my position is here, its just so horribly complex and inhumane. both sides do have merit, or it would be an easy choice.

9/11 Commission controversy

56Thunderbyrd — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:25:28 GMT

9/11 Commission controversy

ALovitz, Columbus, Ohio — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:55:30 GMT

Give me a freakin break. "Questionable interrogation techniques?" We're dealing with people that don't give a second thought about killing an infidel. Yet, we have people living in Disney World, who recommend sitting down with with the scum of the earth and having tea and crumpets, while we work out our differences. My God, we lost 2,000+ Americans in the terror attack on the twin towers, aided and abeted by the very "commrads to the cause" that we have as captives. There isn't any reasoning with these people, and given the chance would snuff out your life in the name of their god. The Israelies learned a long time ago that to get the necessary information to save their country, one has to climb down in the sewer of life with them, and do unto them before they have a chance to do it to them. My friends, we are at war and war is where people die. Frankly, as George Patton so aptly put it, "the idea is not to die for your country, but to get the other SOB to die for his...." I for one, like this concept.

9/11 Commission controversy

Vicki, Fairbanks, Alaska — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:01:11 GMT

Reply to Ashley's remark: "Why would you put secrets like these on the internet, where any terrorist or psychotic person can read.. Real smart..

Doesnt this put people in danger?
Ashley McHugh (Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:31 AM)"

Why? Because the fundamental role of the Media demands it.

Imagine living in a system where the Media is fed propoganda from the government, every word is censored and controlled; you and I never know the truth, and the government is never held accountable.

( Oh...deja vu...anyone following the history of American journalism may notice a particular trend in that very direction. Shame on any lazy cowardly complacent Journalists and Editors who bow to advertisers and the administration.)

Is there danger in having a free press? Should we trust Editors and Reporters to make ethical decissions regarding the release of information?

May we remember and May we Observe: The Bill of Rights. Freedom of the Press. The Freedom of Information Act.

The Media, the fourth estate of government, has a Job to do. It is the watchdog over the three branches of American government. Yes, it has other roles. And there are several types of journalism. But its Core, its primary purpose is to report the truth, the facts, as objectively and ethically as possible to the People.

But. While it must protect the public by keeping it informed and unveil wrong-doings in the government,it must be responsible with that information.

Protecting the people includes operating out of conscious towards national security. If the immediate release of vital information could harm the people, for example, by jeapordizing military operations, the Media has an intrinsic responsibility to decide wether or not to withhold information until after the event.

We are living in an information age. Keep in mind, if a so-called Terrorist wanted information about America's interrogation techniques, they'll get it. With or without the Media.

And would you honestly NOT want to know IF the u.s. government agencies were using extreme abusive interrogation "techniques" on alleged "terrorsts"... or anyone else for that matter? Under those circumstances, can you trust what those prisoners say? I dont know. Its a legitimate question.

Keep in mind also, FAR MORE is withheld from Journalists and the public than is revealed or discovered.

Is there potential danger to the People in having a Free Press? Sure. And the danger without one is far worse.

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Jim Boyle, Seattle, WA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:10:53 GMT

A group of Muslim terrrorists, studying Jihad techniques in Afghani caves, armed with boxcutters, trained in U.S. flight schools (where instructors have said they were all terrible pilots), two of which lived in San Diego with an FBI informant, all of them being trailed in the months leading up to the attacks by Israeli "art students", some financing arranged by Bush connected Riggs bank, cheering Israeli "movers" taking pictures of themselves & the burning twin towers on 911, U.S. war games in progress that took fighter jets away from the eastern seaboard, NO fighters intercepting ANY of the hihjcked airliners before they reached their targets, Norm Mineta's testimony to the 911 Ommisioners that Cheney was warned of the airliner approaching the Pentagon and at 10 miles out was asked "Do the orders still stand" and Cheney replied that "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything different?" and the airliner crashed into the Pentagon unimpeded.

The captain of that airliner was ex-military and had just participated in a simultaed airliner attack on the Pentagon less than a year before, the days war games included simulated crashes of airliners into buildings, FEMA was already in Ne York as of Monday 9/10, Mohammed Atta's passport was allegedly found on a NY sidewalk, three steel framed buildings collapsed as if by controlled demolition (for the first and only time in history - one of which was not even hit by a plane), molten steel remained at the basement levels of the building for weeks or months afterwards...and Bush & Cheney wouldn't testify under oath & would not allow any documenting or recording of their "testimony".

Condi says they could never have suspected that airliners could be used as missiles. Many witnesses at the WTC buildings said they heard multiple explosions before the collapse of the buildings. And the admissions from the "terrorists" were obtained through torture which (of course)makes them suspect.

BUT NO QUESTIONS WERE ASKED OR INCLUDED IN THE 911 OMMISSION REPORT OF ANY OF THE ABOVE.

CASE CLOSED.

9/11 Commission controversy

R Griffin, Some place in Georgia — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:11:57 GMT

I, having been in the US intelligence community and retired from the US Navy believe that information gathered no matter by what means is good. You Liberals need to get a grip and just shut up. We need the information gathered by whatever means available. You WILL NOT get information by sitting a "Combatant" in the corner and telling him he is in a time out. This political correctness is Horse Dung. You can go as far as attacking me but you know what,you have no idea what it takes to get the little bit of information we do get, to keep your Liberal candy asses alive so you can spew your crap about how the military is doing things.

9/11 Commission controversy

Robert, Boston, MA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:15:15 GMT

If they wanted answers to the question, "Who is responsible for Sept. 11th/", they should be torturing Bush, Cheney, Tenet(sp?), Silverstein, Guliani, ect... 9-11 Commission was a farce. If you want to know what's really going on, check out INFOWARS.COM.

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Mad Ashell , Angryville USA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:37:33 GMT

In the immortal words of an American hero in Iraq: "Waxing Haji's is like stomping cockroaches. Gets me Thirsty!" It's us or them and I say we get as many of them as we can before we are all sold down the river to our New Communist Chinese Masters.

9/11 Commission controversy

Jack Powers — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:41:05 GMT

"A House Divided Is Destined To Fall": Ladies and gentleman this is exactly the State Of The Union at "this hour"! It is not politically correct to "state the facts", the real facts of our National State Of Affairs! Here are the real facts; We as a nation are in the fight for our very existance and the freedoms that many left-wingers seem to take for granted. We are fighting Islamo-Fascism! This is not a war against "TERRORISM" or "ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS"! Let us just say it plainly, NOW! The Islamic World has brokered a deal with Communism, "Our Favorite Trading Partner", (RED CHINA) and Putin, and Chavez to bring about our down-fall. Even the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT can smell the blood in the water! Our idiotic media gives out what used to be national secrets on the news every night! "Cronkite is rolling over"! LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS! Our once mighty nation was powerful because WE HAD leaders who understood how "the enemy thinks and acts". Now we have all of these bleeding-hearts in Washington and in the media who think that we can be "lovers" of every kind of idiotic despot and ideology-driven people who are actually hell-bent on revenge because of something historical or.., just plain want to inherit OUR TURF,ex. RED CHINA! Compound that with the fact that we have National Politicians who have "over-stayed" their welcome in OUR GOVERNMENT "somehow", some of which are actually Communists themselves! (ex. "BILLARY") Research it for yourself; (post graduate studies with the Calif. Director of The American Communist Party, -inviting the Communist Red Chinese into The Pentagon, etc.) The issue of TORTURE, or not is simply a distraction which has by it's very design a fragmenting of societal unity. Everyone MUST ASK THIS QUESTION; HAVE WE BEEN ATTACKED SINCE 9/11? Next question; WHY NOT! Centuries ago when the Muslims invaded most of Europe they did not do it in the fashion of Conventional Warfare of the time-period. "They snuck into the tents" of Euro-Soldiers in the dark of the night, sliced off their heads as they slept and left them in their KNIGHTS HELMETS on their CHRISTIAN ALTERS to be found by their commrads at the MORNING PRAYER SERVICES! "YOU MUST ALL KNOW THAT FIRE IS BEST FOUGHT WITH FIRE" Draw a line and start back-fires! Only way to snuff this one out folks!

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Rich, Pottstown, PA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:43:09 GMT

I would wager most of the people who are upset by all of this are high-school to college aged folk, or those who never grew out of their hippy phase. Saying Bush and Cheney are war Criminals? Was Roosevelt a war criminal after the bombing of Pearl Harbor and all the people of oriental look were put into concentration camps here in America? I'm all for life Libery and the pursuit of happiness, but honestly, when you fight someone who doesn't fight by the rules, the gloves come off. Simple as that.

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Bob, Tucson AZ — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:43:24 GMT

Who are the terrorist? To us living in the USA, these may be individuals from the middle east; but these individuals believe the USA is a terrorist nation, bombing indiscriminely over a civilian population to get one or two potential traget of interest. Are we so brave to confront our oponent face to face with the same weapons? Of course not. We are a privileged nation controlling the most destructive weapons in the world williog to squash anyone who appears to be a threat to us. Since we have these weapons, we tend to be on the winning side and anything we do is justified. We are not the leader of the free world; we are leading an imperialistic doctrine with the weakling Bush and Chenney leaders.

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Doug, Ottawa, Canada — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:45:02 GMT

Stop playing word games.

The admistration designed, developed, trained, and deployed torture.

The vast majority of the press, the military, ad the public (explicitely or by turning a blind eye) condoned the torture.

That is what America wanted, did, and continues to do.

No one,including those authorizing and performing these mediaval tortures deny it - and most condone (and many are proud of it).

That is America, or at least what America has become.

The founding citizens would be rightly disgusted.

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AJB Pittsburgh, PA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:46:14 GMT

To the members of the US military, the private contractors sacrificing in this war, the CIA, the FBI, the JTTF's and others sacrificing so we may be free and safe - you have my prayers, admiration, heartfelt thanks and eternal gratitude. We are profoundly indebted to you.
God bless you and God bless America.

9/11 Commission controversy

Mike, Dallas, TX — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:50:24 GMT

I am a USAF veteran and life-long republican. In 1991 I sat in a booth in a Mexican restaurant in Dallas adjoining that of George W. Bush and his two daughters. At that time he was well known as part owner of the Texas Rangers and his father was in office as president. As he said hello he struck me as a genuinely nice guy. How long and low the slide has been since that day. I will never vote republican again. Bush should be in jail for the actual crimes and violations of the spirit of American law under his command since 9/11. I have no love for our enemies. However the behavior of our country has only diminished our standing in the world. For those of you who justify torture and questionable methods, how do you know you are dealing with the real perpetrators? You don't. Justifying such methods only serves to justify actions of our foes. The resulting threats to our society and way of life along with our deteriorated economy and infrastructure have reudced this once great nation to a second-tier status that will leave us soon weakened to a point that we will not be able to defend. In the meantime the body count attributed to our more sophisticated weapons far exceeds those of enemies less developed enemies. Those of you whose comments above commend our brutal efforts shall find one day find that you have cursed us with your own words. I am thankful that as an aging baby boomer I hopefully won't be around to see the final results of this mess and regret that my descendants will have to suffer it. We are past the point of correctly dealing with world events-not that our enemies have honor, but sadly neither do we. This country has learned nothing from it's self-righteous past.

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Robert, Boston, MA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:04:15 GMT

How nice, No Descent! My last comment must have been a little too "Liberal" or maybe a little too informative. Ron Paul for Pres.08

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Bob, Sumter, South Carolina — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:07:34 GMT

I can only add my comments as follows:

When will the US media STOP being traitors to their own country and STOP sucking up to terrorists, its about time some of these ex CIA, so called investigative journalists and similar TRAITORS who give out SECRET information were dealt with. I would guess that this will be deleted but ho hum, that's what I would expect.

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Borikwa51 San Jose, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:15:53 GMT

Thanks for starting to allow the truth about 9/11 to reach the public.

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David Tampa, Florida — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:19:30 GMT

I am in favor of a warm room for them, decent food and a acceptable cell. When they are interrogated, use sodium pentathol, and a polygraph. I have no clue why we have such an aversion to drugs.

9/11 Commission controversy

RowdyBoots, NewYork — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:23:46 GMT

George Bush and Dick Cheney inherited viable enemy in Al Quaida. They were produced by the previous administrations neglect. Clinton was concentrating on sexual adventures while Bin Hidin' was concentrating of KILLING YOU, THE VERY PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT TREATING THEM LIKE NICE LITTLE FUZZY FRENS!

FiftyYearFan

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Knight Ryder — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:28:38 GMT

Personally I believe the C.I.A. should have done what the Isreali Mossad would have done line up a hundred terrorists and the first one to talk doesnt get a bullet in the head or maybe what Hamas or Hezbolah would have done load some oneup and send him into a park or mall full of innocent woman and children or maybe what Al-Queda did kill thousands of INNOCENT men woman and children by flying commercial aircraft's into national landmarks I guess when you look at the big picture sleep/sensory deprivation and some free swimming lessons aren't so bad. So why dont you liberal leftwing losers look at the facts WE ARE AT WAR AND WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO DECLARED IT. If you dont like it and think America is such a bad place and President Bush is so evil move to canada. Or better go to iran make some new friends and get removed from the gene pool.

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RowdyBoots, NewYork — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:29:01 GMT

9/11 Commission controversy

Bob Baltierra La Puente, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:29:24 GMT

Have you noticed that the ones who don't agree have no idea of whats going on. If they have to interrogate a terrorist to save your son or daughter so be it. If they can find out were the next bomb will go off, let them do it. I'm sure they are asking our soldiers, please mister tell us your secrets and we will not send you home in two boxes

9/11 Commission controversy

Joe Blow, Chevy Chase MD — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:31:55 GMT

I have no problem with the harshest kind of mistreatment you can imagine for the people responsible for 9/11, but only an idiot would give credence to any testimony derived from such treatment. If that testimony is valid, then so is everything collected by the Spanish Inquisition or the Nazi Gestapo in their trials and interrogations, which compiled volumes upon volumes of confessions.
And that is the issue here. Go ahead and shoot them in the head, for all I care, but don't claim that forced testimony is worth anything in finding out what really happened.

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bennie brantley sioux city iowa 9/11 commission controversy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:32:29 GMT

I don't understand what the problem is. The are terrorist. They attacked this country and now there are bleeding hearts crying about waterboarding.

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saint — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:33:44 GMT

you know wht the problem is tht u ppl believe wht your TV channels say about any on,u just dont want to research on it by your self,like the WMD's in Iraq your media was screaming about it but did US forces found any of them the answer is 'NO' they also said that Sadam Hussain have links with Osama, did US Intelligence found any evidence 'NO' because there was no such thing there but US still attacks on it and now all countries even UK is claiming Iraq war was and is 'Illegal'
yes i know Sadam was a brutal man and have killed many innocent ppl but there r others too in this world like sadam who are more brutal than him for example: India: Shiv Sinah and his partners who are fanatic Hindus who are responsible for the killings of thousands of muslims during conflicts,
Burma where there is state sponsored terrorism was going on recently,Bosnia,Kosovo,Kashmir but unfortunately no one is here for them as they are not humans right....and Afghanistan where US is testing new breed of weapons on feeble and poor people,you ppl say that they were responsible i dont know how u ppl in ur TV channels please research by urself first.i know it pains if a incident like 9/11 happens,and people who are peace loving had condemned the attacks,but the thing is by torturing and attacking other countries will not solve the problem we need to find out the real culprits....
i have a request for you people do watch Michal Moores movie "Farhenheit 9/11" may be some of you understand the reasons....

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RowdyBoots, New York — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:34:44 GMT

Look Everybody,

It is the MEDIA we are talkin' about here, not honest, decent human beings, so what the heck are you all getting worried about--thier opinion does not count. They have shown themselves to be a group of morons who invade the privacy of every American's personal tragedy, then complain about how we treat murdering, valueless, butchers. It makes perfect sense to me!

FiftyYearFan

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John Ford, L.A., CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:34:45 GMT

How do people think we get information from prisoners anyway? Give them milk and cookies while repeatedly asking nicely for intel? Ashamed of what I ask? What business does NBC have doing this "expose" in the first place? Time to grow up people...everyone does this!

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Dick Smith, Washington, D.c — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:37:49 GMT

It appears are liberal media continues to take the side of terrorist. Maybe we should have placed the media in the towers when they collapsed. Then maybe there family and friends would be asking the same questions, why?

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rig rat saint paul mn — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:38:28 GMT

Geneva convention is not the law it is a treaty and sensory and sleep deprivation nor water boarding are banned in it. And what about the members of the congressional oversight commitees that at toured these facilities back in 2004 and had no problem with the interogation methods it was even reported that someasked if the methods were harsh enough

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MICHAEL BELL,NEW ORLEANS,LA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:39:26 GMT

WILLIAM KEIM YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT, AND I BET YOU WOULD VOTE FOR OBAMA

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Malcolm - Atlanta, Gerogia — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:44:02 GMT

To state the obvious - we are fighting an enemy who every day torture TO DEATH many in Iraq and Afganistan (sp). They think nothing of KILLING and we keep going on and on about methods of obtaining information. Let the CIA alone and let them do the job we have asked them to do. If we had not tied their hands we might have seen 9/11 coming.

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The Gerb, North Carolina — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:46:18 GMT

I cant begin to say how pleased I am that the majority of the comments in here mirror my own thoughts... whatever it takes, Im in. One person said "It's not simulated drowning. IT IS DROWNING!Please tell it straight." I disagree... you dont survive drowning. I really love all those blaming Bush and Cheney. As if the CIA never thought of these things prior to them being elected... yea... RIIIIGHT!!! A couple of folks have mentioned how torture fits in with "a court of law". I always love how Americans always expect OUR laws to be enforced worldwide. Those laws exist for Americans, IN AMERICA, to PROTECT AMERICANS from a runaway authority or government. THIS IS WAR PEOPLE! Waterboarding is rough, no argument... but they are still breathing afterwards. Unlike how many who had their heads SAWED off on TV! I was a soldier in the first gulf war, I SAW the torture rooms the use over there. Compared to them, we ARE using milk and cookies already. WAKE UP AMERICA!!! YOUR LIFE IS AT STAKE HERE!!!

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David — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:55:16 GMT

I second Pete Massey Ret USAF, Elk Grove Village, IL and salute a Veteran of our great nation! We expect the Intelligence Agencies to know everything, stop all bad things,etc. We then expect them to do it all by sending emails to the bad people requesting full disclosure of operations under articles X, X, X of the freedom of information act??? I dont think so. They are tasked with finding out everything they can from people who use everything in their power to keep us from getting that information. That information means American lives. If we can get our hands on them, then we need to be able to extract whatever intel they have... period! Im just sorry we blew so many up BEFORE we could torture them.

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Jonathan, phoenix, arizona — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:58:18 GMT

I would just like to point out that people keep saying that the "founders" of our country would be ashamed. Our founders held slaves and were not the innocent people some would like us to think. Christians also had their times of doing unthinkable acts in the name of religion. The question is religious and it is not political, it simply is survival.

I know a young army vet who had to make the choice between shooting a young child dead or letting him walk up to a check point with a bomb vest on to kill his unit. He did what he had to do even though he is a christian and I might add a fine young man. Regardless of what you may think of the choice it had to be made just as did some of the decisions regarding those caught as terrorists. The choices are not easy, and you are naive to think that there are not real consequences to those who have to make them. But for those who believe we should be "kind to our enemies" Would you have refused to pull that trigger?

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MICHAEL BELL,NEW ORLEANS,LA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:59:00 GMT

WILLIAM KEIM YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT, AND I BET YOU WOULD VOTE FOR OBAMA

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WHYSGUY in TEXAS — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 04:59:23 GMT

Well,Well,Well...Why do we kill people who kill people,to show killing people is wrong?... BECAUSE "An eye for an eye" works better than putting them in "time out" !!!
REWARD = SACRIFICE !!!

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John Ford, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:13:10 GMT

Sometimes I think that the Holocaust clouds the thinking of many Jewish Americans and liberals. Their attitude seems to be that we should all bend over and let the terrorists have their way with us or something. Or maybe appologize for being non-Muslim. Let's be serious here; if you really feel that bad for the terrorists and their cause, why don't you demand that the U.S. force Israel to return land to the Palestinians? While you're at it, lets make it mandatory that everyone in the free world converts to the Muslim faith. Maybe then the extremists will be happy...or maybe not. Let's not forget that they will not rest until every last Jew in the world is DEAD. But torture is not OK to save lives?

Comparing Bush and Cheney to Hitler, Lenin, and Stalin is just plain stupid...not even ignorant! Bush did a good job dealing with the terrorists, don't fault him too much for going to war in order to guarantee our future oil supplies. Unlike Clinton, he hasn't been sitting around like a nouveau riche hillbilly eating McDonald's and partying with female aids all night long.

By the way, if YOUR life was terminated in the womb, wouldn't YOU consider it murder? I think so!

To be fair, I think that NBC should have attached the photos of the 9/11 victims from the NYPD. Some people were burned alive, others crushed to death, many literally sliced to pieces from the falling glass, and others died from blunt force trauma while jumping out of windows. Do you really want to see that tragedy repeated again?!

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Warren Henry Kansas City MO — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:13:14 GMT

War is not pretty. Anyone who doesn't realize we are in a war for survival is either blind or stupid. Our enemies don't "fight fair", so sometimes we need to stoop a little lower than we might like in an ideal world. But we must survive. Perhaps, in the interest of fairness, we should let the families of the 9/11 victims conduct the questioning. I personally would hook battery cables to their testicles and turn up the juice.

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John Ford, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:17:30 GMT

P.S. Maybe cross-examination in a civilian court of law will extract the necessary information?!

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Carmen, Dallas, Texas — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:18:30 GMT

Knowledge is power.

As long as we do not know the full and unvarnished truth about 9/11 we are ALL fools. Spewing opinion without basis.

IF everything is true then we should ask ourselves why WE provoked the attack. We don't own the World and should trade (commerce) fairly. If we want oil then we should pay whatever the going price is. If China pays more then we need to outbid them not tear down the apple tree so that we can get cheaper apples. If we need to destroy the Middle East in order to "democratize" it, let us do -instead- without oil. Let us use our own and when we run out let's use the sun, wind, corn or whatever else the scientists can come up with.

Let us find a way to survive without oil imports from the Middle East, let's stop destroying other people and their cultures. Let's use morals and ingenuity for a better and safer America.

At the present time we are no better than them.

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Jim Nelson, Chicago IL USA Ret. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:21:05 GMT

Americans risk their lives as the price for a free and just democracy. That solemn risk, extends to ALL Americans not just soldiers. That means that the price of our freedom is a certain vulnerability. Occasionally, soldiers, civilians, and police pay the ultimate price for the great and envied freedoms of our nation.

But these days there are a lot of un-patriotic "Americans" who do not want to run the very slight risk of being attacked and instead advocate torture and other cowardly, pathetic attempts to achieve a perfect security not available to a democracy.

And so, our nation foolishly bloodies its hands with "enhanced interrogation" and so doing legitimizes the actions of every other torturer while placing the nation at even greater risk.

You people have the audacity, the temerity, to cite MOVIEs? You cry and whine about "doing whatever it takes to keep us all safe?" How pathetic this nation has become. How cowardly you all are. Look how fast you sacrifice EVERY principle this nation was founded upon - Just to save your wide butts.

A free society is ALWAYS vulnerable. Law enforcement arrests criminals/terrorists mostly after the fact. THAT is the price you pay for your freedom. But now, you all want to throw it all away for a false promise of security. "Do whatever it takes..." The most heinous, evil, order ever given.

What really pisses me off, is that REAL patriots have DIED defending the liberties that you so quickly want to give away.

Go ahead, run away, hide, beg someone else's kid to go overseas and protect YOU. Beg someone else to bloody their soul torturing in YOUR name. Just so YOU can feel all safe inside. Condemn US aid workers overseas to a slow, torturous death at the hands of our newly earned enemies. Hey, just so long as it isn't you right?

You make me sick (cowards do that). And no amount of torture, war, or police tactics will EVER make you people feel safe, whole, or human - And you are certainly not PATRIOTS.

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John Ford, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:29:38 GMT

FYI: Terrorists DO NOT respect the Geneva Convention...so get off about how it is illegal that we torture criminal combatants. I will pay for your air-fare (only one-way needed) to tell the Taliban and Al-Qaeda "freedom fighters" that torture is inhuman and illegal. If you come back with your head and a video, I will be surprised!

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Louis Subirana, Montreal, Canada — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:36:00 GMT

So be it?? Do what it takes??? Torture them, it will save lives??? You got to be kidding me... you've been watching way too much 24!

I've got one interesting fact for those who advocate for the torture of these people: NO ONE has proven that Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden were behind the "attacks". The US never provided the evidence because they couldn't. They could only sell the world a"story", a "story" that is now clearly based on "information" obtained by the CIA under "harsh interrogations" (torture). An unproven story that is as real as Alice in Wonderland.

Bush/Cheney/Tenet lead the charge, sold the story, Zelikow turned the story into a pretty book, and too many bought it.

It all began with 4000 dead Americans, the 2 towers + WTC7 collapsed...

4000+ more dead Americans in the WoT, 60,000+ injured. You have a right to be horrified, angry, vengeful...

1 million Iraqi deaths. Thousands of Afghan deaths. 2 countries torn apart for the "War on Terror" that is based on... you guessed it... fiction. Are they feeling any pain yet?

Who was wrong? Who was right? Who is the terrorist? Where are they hiding?? Does it matter to you? If Bush tells you 9/11 was caused by OBL, do you believe him? If he tells you the commies are coming, do you believe him?

If Bush tells you that sweet, round, orange thing is not an orange, do you believe him:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3898962504721899003

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John Ford, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:39:53 GMT

I think the liberal athiests should move to Palestine or the West Bank along with the ACLU.

As far as New Testament teaching is concerned, it has nothing to do with appeasing terrorists and allowing them to kill innocent people. Do you honestly think Jesus would tell us to bend over and let the terrorists have their way with us?

These are the same idiots who say that we should all turn in our guns to the very same government that they don't trust. Is there something that I'm missing here? What don't I get? Oh, I forgot that torture is bad but abortion is OK!

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Bobby, NYC, NY — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:44:39 GMT

I read the article in which NBC is depicting the cruel methods of interrogations. and i read some ppl comments about that it is perfectly alright to do because they are *terrorist* and they deserve it.
Ok for me it seems like, eye for an eye and tooth for tooth, so what is the difference between us and them(terrorists) in regard to human cruelty.
I am not saying what they did should be pardonable
but i simply do not understand that how would a cruel and harsh torture can bring clean and pure truth out of them. hmm
We should not forget that these ppl (terrorist) have nothing to loose and they are also recruited for suicide bombing.
So how could one squeeze out critical info from ppl(by using cruel physical torture) who already lack human sensitivity and their own soul.
Lets just say that if i badly beat a hardcore criminal to get some info,two probable things will happen
1. for to stop being subjected to my physical torture he would start saying some lies and some confusing facts and try convincing me on it.
2. he will become so hardened and use to my torture that it would make no difference to him.
So my question is what is the creditibility of the truth coming out of terrorist's mouth which is FORCED to tell the truth by means of extreme torture.
How can one use psychological techniques so Confidently to bring out the TRUTH with the persons who have no life for themselves and if given the oppurtinity will commit suicide.
This surprises for the credibility of the whole 9/11 confessions of the prisoners.
It seemes like what american public wanted they, the agency and the power-to-be gave them no matter if it was a fabricated truth or cosmetic lies.
If the pple are happy they agency is doing the good job.

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John Doe, Seattle, Wash. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:49:03 GMT

CENTRAL GOVERNMENT = TYRANNY = TERRORIST

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Third Person, Ontario Canada — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:55:58 GMT

Americans seem to have great difficulty understanding exactly why so many other people across the globe oppose them. Judging from the posts so far, the majority of U.S. citizens are either ignorant of their own history, blinded by patriotism, or simply have a different set of moral values than the rest of us. The U.S. holds itself up as a moral 'beacon,' and yet is quite ready and willing to lower itself to the level of it's enemies. You have historically provided support for militant groups and individuals (including, but not limited to, Afghani warlords and Saddam Hussein) and then are shocked when they turn against you. You have so much power, so much potential to do good in places such as Darfur, and yet you invade countries and assume that their inhabitants-- terrorist or not-- will not defend it (wouldn't you?). It's easy to blame others and make excuses, and hard to accept responsibility for your own mistakes. From My Lai to waterboarding...when will you people ever learn that force only generates (and is generated by)false intelligence (anyone see some WMDs?) as well as more hatred and opposition? Learn from your history, learn to see things from alternative points of view, or your "eye for an eye" policy will result in everyone being blind. Perspective matters.

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John Doe, Seattle, Wash. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:56:32 GMT

Vote for Ron Paul. He's the only hope to return to the Constitution. Write him in if he's not on the ballot. This status quo and a central government must be stopped DEAD in its tracks. They have spent many years programming you and profiteering from your ignorance and lack of knowledge of history. It's time to turn the tide!

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anonymous — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:01:26 GMT

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005182.php

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EdB, Toronto — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:05:35 GMT

If you act as a fascist, you are.
These things will come home to roost
with those comitting the acts. Were deaths caused by this? Yes. 30 brought to court out of
200 who had sensitive conditions, like they
were breathing. If you condone torture,
you are defined by it, very simple. It really
doesn't matter what the other is accused of; in
many cases they did nothing, but no one was
going to admit a mistake. If you are accused
you're guilty. That's anti American, and strikes
at the very roots of freedom.

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J E Burke, New York, NY — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:09:12 GMT

This is such a nonsensical supposed "controversy," with people complaining about whether information gleaned from aggressive interogations of captured al Qaeda leaders and operatives should have been regarded as reliable by the Commission in constructing a "history" of the attacks. The fact is, however, that whatever the nature of the interogation -- whether gentle, harsh or worse -- these guys may well have lied through their teeth. CIA was not engaged in an exercise in academic history, much less in developing evidence for trials. It was trying to find out what it needed to know to disrupt al Qaeda operations and prevent further attacks. The whole Commission process was foolishness designed to assess -- or avoid -- blame for past errors and omissions. The Commission Report might easily have been written without any input from any al Qaeda detainee --a it would have been if CIA, the military and allied intelligence services had not caught these guys in the first place by using all the tools available to them.

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Joe Vigue Berlin New Hampshire — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:15:21 GMT

Define torture:

Bleeding heart liberals, including NBC news think sleep deprevation, food deprevation, waterboarding, being held in an uncomfortable position, or not being allowed to watch our favorite TV show, etc are torture.

Most of us who have commented so far think getting your head lopped off with a f---ing machete, being doused with gasoline and set on fire, having your body filled with holes by a drill, etc is torture.

I guess I'd have to say, "We here in the U.S. do not practice torture!!!" Ladies and gentlemen---WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!! We are now in the 21st century and our enemy is playing by ENTIRELY different rules than you are used to. GET OVER IT!!

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Thomas Lee Boles, Saint Paul, Minnesota — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:16:35 GMT

I wonder why it's so hard for the hardliners to face the fact (regardless of the moral question) that information gained by torture is worthless. The victim will say whatever pleases the torturers. We've already sent at least one innocent person to Guantanamo this way. Then should we beat him into implicating other innocents? Would any of these hardnosed types be willing to risk their lives as field agents on information gained this way?

How many people originally unaffiliated with al Qaeda have joined in self defense or for revenge?
Why is it so difficult for hardliners to face the fact that they are the enemy's best recruiters?

This all sounds rather like the Cold War "logic" over the size of our nuclear arsenal. If we and the Soviets had the power to blow each other up ten times over, rather than only five, we were "safer."

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Kahana, Van Nuys, California — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:16:53 GMT

Torturing innocent people is bad, but how does one effectively know who's the bad person? Interrogation is the viable practice. And will a cunning murder simply confess, hell no! And should "good guys" just take another death, hell no! A war is a conflict where people die, good or bad. But I would rather torture possibly the bad before I allow the definitely good die and then whine about politics when there's blood in the streets. For all the political whiners, what would YOU do personally to stop the machete killings in Kenya, for example? Fight or talk with a machete coming straight at you??!1

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Terry Meyer, St. Louis, Mo. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:18:04 GMT

The only thing that lessens my shame of being an American at this point in time is to read the outrage expressed by my fellow countrymen and countrywomen on the treacherous and evil conduct engaged in by those in this country who want to justify this conduct and/or take no part in opposing it.

Why is torture wrong? One answer is because the torturer can never be certain that the person he is torturing possesses the information that the torturer wants to obtain. (Obviously, this only applies to those who torturer to gain information, verses those U.S. people who torture to satisfy their sadistic need to cause other people pain.)

In the "best case scenario," the torturer finds out before he kills the person being tortured that the person being tortured doesn't, in fact, have the information that the torturer was trying to obtain. However, sometimes the torturer feels the need to "try to death," the death of the person being tortured, that is.

Good Americans would rather see a guilty person go free than see a good person sent to prison for a crime they didn't commit.

Good Americans also refuse to participate in evil actions such as torture, even if it means that innocent people die because of information that could have been obtained if the right person had been sufficiently tortured.

To supporters of torture, I no more want to be counted among you as an American than I did to those who engaged in the genocide of the native American, supported/tolerated slavery, suppressed the rights of women, and those who have supported our slaughter of innocent people through our military incursions into countries like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

The American flag, if it stands for any one thing, stands for hypocrisy. True patriots who believe in freedom and liberty will never stop fighting against that hypocrisy and against those who either can't see it, or refuse to see it.

P.S. The articles' "harsh interrogation" euphemism for torture is truly despicable. Suggesting that these methods only cause temporary discomfort, rather than the permanent physical and emotional harm they do is just asinine.

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Thomas Lee Boles, Saint Paul, Minnesota — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:19:14 GMT

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Raja Abdul Limbaugh III — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:22:55 GMT

those individuals directly responsible for the 9/11 tragedy have been dead since that day haven't they? I wish you would quit associating everything done in the "war on terror" with 9/11 because that horse has long left the barn. Call it what it is. We may have to use extreme tactics to defeat the terrorists, and a few innocents will be hurt in the process on both sides.

9/11 Commission controversy

Gary A. Brown, Bagram, Afghanistan — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:27:45 GMT

These fanatical muslims will never change. They should not only be torturing them to get information on future attacks, but right before we slice thier heads off, we need to bath them in pigs blood. This should all be done out in the open for the whole world to see. Possibly they might think twice before doing something that might get them in our hands. I would be happy to be the citizen who carries this out.

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Jim Wells — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:55:57 GMT

There is NO simple answer to all this--SURE, when you think that someone wants to kill you, you don't feel like being nice to them, but starting with 911 is too convenient. Don't forget, the good ol' USA MADE Bin Laden. When we wanted religously zealotus maniac suicide fighters to help foment Holy War in Iran, our CIA trained him and armed him. When we continued to support the unbelievably selfish, arrogant, and corrupt Saudi monarchy, as well as so many other gross manipulations of power over common folks worldwide, in order for our multi-national corporations to have unbridled, preferential access to "raw materials", we made enemies who, powerless to beat us at our superpower game, had only "terror" as a chance to strike back. There is a reason why the 911 Commission advised that we should become "good neighbors"--IT IS BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE WE HAVE EVER BEEN, despite what we have all been told, and what we would like to believe, and it is our secret "bad neighbor" policies that make most of our enemies so. NO policies can eliminate hatful, insane, and irrational people from the face of the earth, nor eliminate their access to abilities to harm others, but we sure could stop proliferating them by ceasing to exert control over others by force, intimidation, and terror ourselves. We did not begin to use force, intimidation, theft, and terror in response to 911--we simply turned up the volume of the behaviors we have been engaging in for a long, long time. Who is going to explain what justified it before 911?

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Doug Miller Newton Falls Ohio — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:20:42 GMT

These people (the detainees) are terrorists - this is a fact. Why should we respect their human rights when they chose to disregard the rights of our citizens? As far as I'm concerned, they gave up their rights when they decided to take another human life, or even participated in the process.

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Jim Wells. Eugene, OR — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:22:20 GMT

I am ashamed that another commentor from Eugene, Bruce Ime, although using a great deal more logic than most other posting here, yet gives fuel to the ignorant masses also posting. Yes, ignorant. How quickly they rush to defend our all-so-obvious criminal, lying, cheating, traitors-to-the-Constitution, stealing-of-the-Treasury-to-give-to-their-friends government, based on their emotional belief in that government's lies, easy prey to the calculated stimulus. WE ARE NOT INNOCENT, my fellow Americans. That does not absolve others of their wrongdoings, but let's not pretend we are holier than they. Unless and until we clean our OWN house, we have NO standing to claim either high ground nor "neccessity". Wasn't Jesus supposed to have said to let those among us who have not sinned cast the first stone? Aren't Christians commanded to turn the other cheek? WAKE UP, FOLKS. If WE do not set the right example, who will? The example we are seting now, the world over, is "take all you can get, by whatever means you can get away with, and keep as much of the truth from your own people as possible."

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Casey, Oakland, CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:30:09 GMT

People being tortured will confess to anything. This shouldn't be a question of whether torture is right or wrong, but whether this INFORMATION is right or wrong. Yes, torture is horrible.

But I really want to know, did the Commission tell the true story? Or a public myth?

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Jeff Kinder Shelburne, MA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:41:54 GMT

When did TERRORISTS become operatives or dissidents? I think helping to kill thousands innocent people should still qualify, the men questioned are TERRORISTS in my book.

Also, why isn't it mentioned that with the number of detainees questioned; comparison of their statements was most assuredly done?

Be that as it may, the writer seems to be busy trying to convince me to grant these accomplices to the murder of thousands of men, women, and children credit for being members of the human race.

We should be thanking the interrogators for bringing into the light; the single minded insanity that is radical Islam. I personally won't waste my time worrying about some sub-humans, human rights.

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John Varuna — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:23:02 GMT

Are we becomming a nation of "good Germans?"

For those who so avidly support the continued use of "waterboarding" and other such techniques as valid, let me remind them of the following --
Firstly, torture is explicitly prohibited by U.S. law as evidenced by the "Convention Against Torture" (1994). They are therefore supporting the commission of a felony. Secondly, the Nuremburg Commission's findings lead to the UN General Assembly's "Convention Against Torture" in 1948. Those who support torture today slur the memory of those who died in WWII while defeating a regime that widely used torture, the Nazis. Thirdly, a series of other international covenants (to which the U.S. was a signatory) prohibit such acts as "war crimes." Those who support torture today are a party to war crimes that the Geneva Conventions were established to prohibit. Fourthly, those who claim that torture is justified against "terorists" if torture "can save lives" are woefully ignorant of the findings of our own Intelligence Science Board and the F.B.I. Their justifications are therefore nullified by evidence accumulated by our own expert interrogators. Lastly, those who support torture under any circumstances violate the moral principles of the three monotheisms: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Such support, therefore, is a violation of the most basic moral principles that our Nation was formed to uphold.

John Varuna

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Tom K. Cal. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:28:50 GMT

All this noise about how C.I.A.obtained critical info from terrorists and those that support them. Give me a freakin break . They came at us in a clear act of war much like Pearl Harbor. At that point any rights they never had in the first place are gone . Or would it be bettor to treat them like a citizen of the U.S.and send them to rehab. I think no is a good answer.F___em they chose the road they went down now let them pay the toll. Wake up they care not if you die.In fact they want you to. I care deeply for my country and feel sad every time we lose one of those young people who defend the right of some whiney-ass like Sen.Ted to cry about how these sorry bunch are treated.

9/11 Commission controversy

The Spirit of Lady Liberty, New York, New York. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:29:29 GMT

DUE TO THE CENSORSHIP OF THE TRUTH, I DOUBT NBC WILL ALLOW THIS POST, BUT I'M GOING TO TRY ANYWAY. To all those that think torture is OK and believe the BS propaganda you are spoon fed by corrupt elements in the media, read the following. In December, the former President of Italy, said it has been an open secret in Intell that 9-11 and other terrorist attacks were another Operation Gladio (inside job). He said that people couldn't call him a Crackpot Conspiracy theorist due to the fact he had to resign in the past after telling the TRUTH that he was involved with the CIA and NATO in Operation Gladio. Operation Gladio was a series of False Flag terrorist attacks carried out against innocent civilians, including children, in order to have countries convince their citizens there was a need to increase security (thus more weapons sales and less rights - Sound familiar folks?) Corrupt elements in the media have been involved in illegal, criminal, heinous NAZI inspired defense programs affiliated with the NSA wiretapping program to torture innocent American Citizens that have been targeted in life long Defense Programs, which WERE suppose to be banned in 1977 by the Church and Pike Commission and Sen. Kennedy. In addition, the aforementioned have been involved in using symbolic language to orchestrate terrorist attacks in order to manipulate stocks and commodities. Allegedly the SEC was investigating this but was told to 'back off'. An example of this was in Sept. 2002, a so-called top Al Qaeda website called Waaqiah.com had an interview with Ayman Al Zawahiri which ended with the words "Greetings from Paradise. See 10:10"(note two tens). 10:10:10 was alledly the Kenyan code call to attack the USS COLE in 10-12-00. The 91-95 Microsoft Font System showed J/10/island. The October 2002 front cover of the National Geographic showed BALI with the words "Bali-Is It Still A Paradise?" On 10-12-02 (note two years) being on the second anniversary of the USS COLE attack, BALI was attacked. Numerous other similiar examples can be given. In 2003 TIA Admiral Poindexter had to resign in disgrace when it was gleaned that his Project Basketball (remember Tenet Iraq info 'Its a slam dunk') was a way to legitimize a betting operation on terrorist attacks and assasinations. On May 12, 2006, the article "Early Warning - Wiretapping is Just the Tip of the NSA Iceberg" by William Arkin of the Washington Post listed numerous NSA related defense programs including ORION (AF Project Orion was part of MKULTRA mind control allegedly banned in 1977 by the Church and Pike Commission due heinous NAZI inspired acts being perpetrated against innocent American Citizens (and children) including TORTURE with the help of corrupt elements in the Medical Community. The list also included Basketball, Enterprise, FAT CAT and FEED DEMON (occultism). Evidence was sent to numerous Top Officials regarding the acts of sadistic psychopaths involved in the aforementioned, which resulted in numerous 'abrupt' resignations of Top Officials, although to date no one has been held responsible, for what amounts to TREASON and Crimes Against Humanity. There is alot more going on with all of this than the average person could ever imagine. You may recall one of the above posts referring to techniques that sounded more like 'terrorist' tactics than alleged law enforcement procedures...what is the difference between psycho-ops/D4/deny, discredit, disable, destroy tactics against innocent American Citizens that find out about 'dirty secrets' and try to attain legitimate Justice for innocent people and TERRRORISTS? Also note above post about "Garbage In, Garbage Out" (Statue of Liberty 'send me your refuse') and "mosquito's" (like blood suckers, see song about Vampires at the end of movie Juno and past Time Warner Commercial with spoof on mutated mosquito child in garage. eg: Christians believe in the resurrection of the body in End Times, like Vampires), in addition to "Wrath of Khan" post (Starship "Enterprise", Enterprise/RICO/Racquetering, Pakistan A.Q. Khan, Khan as in KLINGons like GLADio as in GLAD wrap)...more 'coincidences'? Elitist Dynasty famiies interwoven with an internal intell turf battle is what is really going on 'behind closed doors'...remember the OBL communique that stated "Enough of the backstabbing, lets have a truce.?" What was SUPPOSE to set America apart from all the rest was that we were suppose to be better than our "enemies", to stand above the rest, to show the world a better way. What has and is being done with a 'shadow government' in the US is a DISGRACE to every soldier that has lost life/limb to uphold the Ideals upon which our Country was founded. The condoned use of TORTURE at BLACK sites, Abu Ghairab, and "Camp DELTA X-Ray" puts our soldiers at great risk if captured. If those involved in the aforementioned are not held accountable for their crimes, then our Country and everything it stands for is nothing but a LIE. WE THE PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN THIS. For the RECORD here are some of the following that have been notified CRR/e-mail of the aforementioned with NO response except abrupt resignations that immediately followed: Pres. Bush, JCS, SOD Gates, DoD Inspector General, NSA Inspector General, former CIA Dir. Goss, CIA Dir. Hayden, Senate Intell Committee Sen. Rockefeller and Feinstein, FBI Civil Rights Division, DOJ US Attorneys Office, Senator Obama, Sen. McCain, Sen. Shelby, House Sub-Committee on Constitutional and Civil Rights...allegedly Mukasey (Gonzales replacement) appointed CT.US Atty Durham to launch a criminal investigation of the CIA (and other intell) regarding destruction of evidence regarding torture against court order...what did they have to Hide or is that Hyde?

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regis49 Savannah, Ga — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:01:35 GMT

I imagine myself sitting in the last row of the next airliner to be flown into a tall building.

Does the fuselage crumble in front of me and take my life as all its material piles up to me?

Does only the front section crumble and leave the ingegrity of the part I'm in so that I'm doused with jet fuel and set ablaze?

Does my seat rip out of the floor and get thrown forward into all the seats in front of me?

Does my seatbelt break or hold until I'm nearly split in two from deceleration forces?

How long does it take for me to die? Is it instantaneous or do I have a fleeting moment of consciousness left to know and feel what's happening to me?

Oh, God. Anything but this! Let them interrogate me. Let them deprive me of sleep and put me in a cold room for as long as they want. Even let them waterboard me intead of this! At least I'll live through that. But not this, God. Not THIS, Dear God!

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Roy Perez, Crystal City, Texas.USA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:04:42 GMT

We are at war and must support our military, not the enemy! If you wish to support the enemy, than renounce America and move out of this free country. American Blood has been shed on American Soil, chose whose side you are on! It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees...
Support our American Military .
For the People @ by the People
of the United States of America

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Sameer, India — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:15:25 GMT

I live in India. We have been facing terrorism since the 1980's. I sadly don't see anything wrong with the use of torture or narco-analysis to extract information from the terrorists (or their supporters).

I recall a senator from Indiana showing photographs of the bodies of terrorists killed by the Indian Security forces in Punjab. He was trying to show how inhuman were the Indian forces. Well, Sir, I suppose you have woken up now to see what stuff the forces have been dealing with. It is very difficult to stop an evil-minded person/entity from causing harm to the general population. Without timely and accurate information, the security forces are likely to fail. Give them some latitude for the greater good.

Terrorists are trash! They don't treat others like humans, why should we treat them like humans?

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AC Robertson,Jr, Newport, NC — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:19:52 GMT

You want to enjoy the freedoms associated with the Christian way of life. But you do not want to do the work that is required to matintain them. What have you done in your lifetime to protect the rights of those unable or unwilling too.?

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David M. Red Bank, N.J. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:24:05 GMT

Have we not learned what happens when we unreasonably hamstring or limit our nations law enforcement community from using the methods needed to extract information from suspects? Just look what happened after Pres. Carter practicaly dismanteled our intel agencies back in the 70's. We give rights and protections to foreign nationals and terrorists that are not deserved, while often denying the same to our own citizens. The illegal alien situation(not undocumented, which seems to be the new P.C.buzz word @ the moment)is out of control and beyond acceptable, yet our elected officials refuse to allow the agencies responsible for enforcing existing laws the backing or support(whether monetary or legislatively) to carry out thier assigned duties. We have no problem going after domestic or homegrown threats, but tiptoe around and walk on eggshell's when islamic or muslim entities are involved. I know many current and former military/law enforcement personel and thier stories are disturbing if not outright horrifying. When will we wake up? Hopefully before it's too late.

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teannah, st louis mo — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:43:43 GMT

Re P. Arizona: Just how do you know if these people were guilty? Because they confessed under torture? You are aware that at Gitmo they are quietly releasing hundreds of these 'guilty' people.

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Steve Strickland, Waycross, GA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:57:25 GMT

The interrogation methods, including waterboarding, are not torture. You can ask John McCain or anyone else who was a POW to differentiate between these methods and true torture. Sleep deprivation, hunger and discomfort lower the resistance of the individual to withhold info. Lies are weeded out through asking the same questions numerous times in different ways interspersed with questions about things that the answers are already known. It is a time consuming task done by dedicated professionals most of whom have families. You wouldn't get 1/10th of the necessary info without these methods.

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D. M, Tampa, FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:02:17 GMT

So much for rights in this country! If this was another country doing this to an American we would be down their throats so fast that they wouldn't have time to gag! But its ok for us to do this.... I am getting to the point of being ashamed of this country every time I turn around.

9/11 Commission controversy

Neptune Rex, Alantis, Alantic — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:13:47 GMT

To torture, not to torture, I will leave that for them to decide but, military leadership, failed us!!! Let’s get that compass out on the table and yours, off the table. In the beginning, photos leaked out of a problem in a prison in Iraq? Remember??? It was your staff. You, your staff...Leadership!!! I guess you failed to inspire right? I said right? Who does your staff serve? You? Well then, my little pet tax paid freaks with a hyped education degree, what the f_ck was a camera doing on your watch?!?!?!? Why did the individuals you are responsible for training and supervising fry first? Is that integrity? Leadership? Or did it take a media fire storm to reach the top of that tree?

This current tree...lucky for all of you in current DOD leadership positions that I am not in your upper chain of command...

9/11 Commission controversy

Doug, Ottawa, Canada — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:31:12 GMT

"It seems that there are two opinions on the subject. The international community says that what we do is immoral. The American community says "do what it takes". My own view is "Do what it takes". If they are willing to murder ten of us, murder 100 of them. Make the idea of attacking innocent people so ghastly, that they don't even consider it an option. This solution has two benefits. One, countries harboring terrorists will quickly denounce them, for fear of retaliation against themselves. Two, with everyone no longer willing to support their actions, terrorists will find their mobility limited, and their effectiveness decreases exponentially. The international community finds torture, and extreme interrogation techniques detestable, only until they are the ones under fire, and then the tune changes quickly."

It is virtually impossible to tell whether this is an American speaking about a Mid-Eastern terrorist or an Iraqi or Palestinian, or Afghani citizin talking about an American terrorist.

Being the best is an admirable goal, but not when American citizins and government pursue the goal of being the best terrorists in the world.

9/11 Commission controversy

WHYSGUY, Houston,Texas. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:40:45 GMT

REWARD = SACRIFICE !!!

9/11 Commission controversy

Alex, Tokyo. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:58:53 GMT

How can we base the truth on lies? If you are tortured again and again, you will confess to anything for the torture to stop. So the detainees lied, and the interrogators knew it. Knowingly presenting lies as truth, implies that you are lying too. So then how can we believe the CIA when they tell us that those being interrogated were behind 9/11, and that they confessed to it? What the CIA did was only make them confess the story they wanted them to tell, and not the truth. It is not a matter of "those killed members of our families, they deserve torture", but rather a matter of "are those people really guilty of what we accuse them of?". We call them terrorists but they are only terrorists in so far as they confessed to it. Ok, let's torture terrorists, but not torture people to make them say they are terrorists. The article was not about the CIA torturing terrorists to protect the homeland, it was about torturing people to get the truth out. You cannot have truth the way the CIA operated. A truth based on lies is a lie. Presenting it as The Truth is deception. Deception. They served us a lie, we baited at it, taking it as the truth, and look where we are now? Wars, death, more terrorists, more hatred... we sent to death more of our own people than terrorists could/would have killed themselves. Who does it benefit? Not us the people. Who? If they really want to protect us, then why do they have to lie and hide the truth? Again and again, truth is being manipulated to serve their own interests, and have us follow them in their mad madness. May we be blessed by enlighted people to guide us, not warmongers who do not have the interest of their own people in mind.

9/11 Commission controversy

Bob Williams, Houston, Texas — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:58:55 GMT

More Liberal garbage. Water boarding is a great, non-invasive, harmless way of gaining critical intelligence to defend our society.

Other than complain about our intelligence gathering methods, what alternatives did you offer?

9/11 Commission controversy

Steve Cook, Dallas, TX — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:59:07 GMT

I have no sympathy for terrorists, but when we say it's alright for the U.S. government to use torture, the slippery slope will end up with American citizens being tortured. Remember, the PATRIOT Acts allow the government to label any dissident citizen a "terrorist", and sooner or later, they will use these same techniques on ordinary Americans who question or criticize the government. Also, we Americans love to prattle on about how moral and righteous we are, and we've executed people for "war crimes", but when we do the same thing, we think that it's justified. The Allies incinerated millions of unarmed civilian non-combatants in fire-bombing raids in WW2, yet we think we have the right to pass moral judgment on the rest of world. It makes us Americans look like a bunch of shameful hypocrites. Also, when you torture suspects, they'll eventually tell you whatever you want to hear in order to stop being tortured, which makes information obtained under torture unreliable at best. I'm a U.S. military veteran, and I wish all the best to our brave troops, who have to risk their lives for the ambitions of corrupt politicians who sit cozily in their mansions, snug and secure, while the GIs suffer all kinds of hardships due to the orders of our lying, duplicitous leaders. That's my two cents. PS, everybody vote for Ron Paul, the only honest candidate who's running in this election. He's a good man, and a true patriot who believes in the Constitution and the ideals of America's founding fathers. The others are a bunch of liars and crooks who will betray us yet again.

9/11 Commission controversy

TN, L,PA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:08:10 GMT

That's right... Freedom isn't free... It costs lot. It means you have to respect the rights of all people, even your enemy. That you have to deal with the guy with the KKK sheet burning a cross in his back yard. The flip side is that you don't get tortured and that you can protest against your KKK neighbor. That is the true price of freedom. It is not just soldiers dying to protect this country. It is mostly you dealing with the inconveniences of liberty...

9/11 Commission controversy

jtc_bryant@msn.com — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:31:25 GMT

The prisoners at Gitmo are lucky to still be alive. I think its somewhat fitting that we've kept them from their 72 virgins, and maybe they are truly fortunate to have had their arrival to paradise postponed for as long as possible. Come on now, does any precident exist where the Islamic jihadists were honorable or behaved in any way similar to western morals. I don't believe so. From what I can tell its just an Islamic ponzi scheme where the leaders get their followers to stir up a bunch of trouble, so Western govts will offer money to aleviate the poor suffering Islamic masses but the money can be diverted to some Swiss bank account. Stop the payola and bribes I say. Acts of terrorism commited on American soil by foreign nationals should cost the perpetraters such a high price that it becomes a nonviable tactic. The shieks don't care about these guys in Gitmo, get real, they're squalking because there's money in it. Like $80+ per barrel money in it. So why are American taxpayers footing the bill to build Iraq back better than it used to be when the Iraqi oil wells are pumping out oil at record world market prices? Now that's torture! WB Johnson, Blacksburg, VA

9/11 Commission controversy

Rosalie Sundin, Minneapolis, MN — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:53:59 GMT

In reference to the comments made by Thomas Schlessinger of Phoenix, AZ: the problem is UNTIL you have some proof that a person is guilty, that person must be presumed to be innocent. How do YOU know who was guilty, and therefore, according to you, deserving of torture by drowning? MANY of the individuals arrested by the CIA and military in Iraq and Afghanistan were really victims of an enemy neighboring tribesman or of an opponent in a conflift having NOTHING to do with 9/11. Only after they were tortured often enough did the CIA surmise that they were in fact innocent. Would it be ok for the Phoenix police dept. to arrest and torture you because they believed you were guilty of rape & murder of a neighbor of yours (although the reason they thought so was due to the report of a guy who is angry with you for not returning a borrowed lawnmower, who happens to be the exboyfriend and REAL killer/rapist? THAT is why torture is wrong. It frequently (if not almost always) results in false confessions that are very difficult to retract. Most cops and prosecutors are loathe to let go of someone they have come to believe is guilty, no matter how that belief came to be. We as Americans should be ashamed.

9/11 Commission controversy

Louis Stanfield — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:59:53 GMT

Jesus Christ would weep. He did not say, "Love those whom it is convenient to love". He did not say, "The ends justify the means". He did not say, "Torture in my name because I enjoy the screams". And it is NO justification that "they do worse". None whatsoever. If you plan to behave like Nazis, why not just admit it and cut the pretense of "Christianity". And no, it doesn't make it right because they are wrong. Never has, never will. So save your self-righeousness for the judgement day, you are going to need it.

9/11 Commission controversy

Tom Steinberg — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:11:47 GMT

How do we know that the tortured detainees are terrorists? Because the CIA says so? Because they're Muslims? Many tortured detainees are released after they are determined to be innocent.
How would you like to be detained and tortured because the Taliban says so, or because you're a Christian?
In the US, there's a presumption of innocence before guilt is proven; maybe that needs to be changed -- maybe we should presume guilt, and get confessions from suspects after torturing them? After all, violent criminals show their victims no mercy; why should we presume they're innocent when they are OBVIOUSLY guilty?
There's nothing wrong with stopping the religious fanatics before they kill us, but it's naive to assume that every Muslim in the Middle East is a terrorist.
Furthermore, when you torture someone, you will get him to say anything you want, regardless of its veracity. Torturing is "doing what it takes" only to obtain questionable information.
How accurate has the CIA been in its intelligence lately?

9/11 Commission controversy

bil2lay@aol.com — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:15:01 GMT

A quote from the Van Halen music video in the 1993 entitled "Right Now". Although they weren't spoken lyrics, these words flashed on the screen with a cartoon graphic of a cruel trick. "Right now, your government is doing things you think only other governments do". To all the bleeding heart liberals out there: Thank god they are.

Bill T, New Jersey, USA

9/11 Commission controversy

Concerned with the lies — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:16:21 GMT

The ends don't justify the means. They should have taken action before the attacts happened, not sit around in complacency. There is no such thing as protection,(Sounds like a mafia promise)or if there was they would have stopped 9/11.

9/11 Commission controversy

Josh T. Lusby, MD — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:18:01 GMT

There is no question that the acts of 9/11 were deplorable and will, in spite of the media, live on in America's memory. The question is not torture or human rights though. The question is national dignity, pride, and values. As a nation America became the light of the world in the aftermath of WWII because of our relentless dedication to freedom, both at home and abroad.

Regardless of how angry, and believe me I am still very angry, and hurt that we are over 9/11, we must not become the bully on the playground. Excercing power without the restraint of morals and wisdom, aka law, threatens to put us on the same level as the tyrants of wars past. America is great due to its commitment to the rule of law, and the commitment that no one, not even the government is above that.

In case you are wondering I am a veteran, not just an arm-chair ponitificator.

9/11 Commission controversy

jay, Everett, Wash — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:36:23 GMT

Waterboarding is done to many of our servicemen in escape and evasion training in boot camp. When they finally get caught, the trainee is subjected to waterboarding, electrocution or other 'helpful' methods to help them remember more than; name, rank, and serial number. This is done to let the trainee know what will happen when they get caught by the enemy in wartime. If anybody thinks this is torture and these Guantanamo guests deserve million$ for their pain and suffering, let's start with our servicemen. The guys doing it (U.S. ARMY, RANGERS,SEALS,DELTA,CIA) deserve a medal!

9/11 Commission controversy

james german, grand rapids, mi — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:36:42 GMT

The CIA should be eliminated. It has interferred with other countries internal affairs ever since it was created after WW2. Any bureaucracy always expands and goes beyond its mandate. The US needs to stop sending the CIA and US soldiers oversea. It needs to pull its soldiers out of the dozens and dozens of countries where it has stationed soldiers and spys.
The US has had soldiers in Japan and Germany since WW2. That is 63 years. Why? The US has had soldiers in Korea for over 50 years. Why?
As long as the US continues to meddles in other countries interal affairs then it can naturally expect to have attacks on its people or property either within the US or overseas.

9/11 Commission controversy

Paul Deuth, Connecticut — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:40:55 GMT

Torture elicits the repsonse that the torturer desires. This is precisely the point, I'm afraid. I fear that those who promote and permit torture do so in order to get the answers they want or need to further their own ends. Extremists will benefit from this: it's a cheap and easy way to justify their extremism. Bush, et al, are such extremists, to be sure. I fear their desire to torture stems from its reliability in eliciting exactly the response you want.

9/11 Commission controversy

john, montebello, Calif — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:46:03 GMT

Waterboarding torture? They were just giving those poor bastards a cold drink because that Guantanamo sun and humidity are oh so hot!

9/11 Commission controversy

Robert Chandler Boston, Mass — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:19:20 GMT

We use to believe that only Nazis/Imperial Japan/Communist of any stripe and petty dictators tortured. We use to believe that torture was barbaric and done by monsters....not by Americans. Now under this semi-fascist bush admininstration we "debate" the nature of torture and have practiced it with a legal blessing akin to the Nazi Nuremburg Laws. Those of you who approve are a disgrace to America and the sooner you crawl back under the rock you came out from the better. We consider you to be traitors to the ideals of this nation. Our forefathers came here to escape the cruelty of their native lands and to have these abominations approved by a buffon who calls himself a President is sickenning.

9/11 Commission controversy

jimk — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:22:58 GMT

It makes me laugh when prisoners complain the U.S. will extradite them to another country that might be rougher on them. Allah forbid they go to a country that plays by thier rules.

We pander to the kumbaya types who curse the soldiers and decision makers that insure the very freedom we enjoy.
The western public reacts like pansies, and al-queda knows it.
They want to die for thier religion and we should help them in every way we can.

9/11 Commission controversy

Danny — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:23:48 GMT

The United States is getting too lax with the way it handles prisoners of war. Those who cause death to innocent American Citizens need severe punishment. End of discussion.

Oh, and by the way, get ready for more atrocities by terrorists from around the world directed specifically towards North America.

Lastly, do not weaken the American military and government agencies by crippling their actions. Let us keep the freedom we currently have.

Promote patriotism within our country. Honor our counrty. Love our counrty.

9/11 Commission controversy

Simon Bolivar, USA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:38:53 GMT

I have read this article and all the comments that have been posted...... I wanted to see how people really feel about this big issue that is affecting us as a country. I'm a retired Navy FMF/Recon IDC Senior Chief Corpsman, I have served with the Marines for 17 of my 22 years in Active duty. I see the pain and the anger across our country, how our people died b/c of extremists
our boys and girls serving, holding the post while we debate and argue while they protect our right to free speech.....one question?? when did we start attacking each other? "liberal", "conservative" "right" "left" wing? i have been interogated, i have seen it done, its not something that you ever want to be a part of. is it necessary? yes it is....... but only if you have the right "suspect", not some nomad sheep herder. the bottom line is, the people who crashed those planes they are dead. it wasn't A country that attacked us it was an organization Al-queda, our country is angry,but before you point a finger. think. a group of people do not represent a culture.

9/11 Commission controversy

SAM — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:59:34 GMT

There are many reasons we don't torture operatives.

1) It tends to provide more unreliable information as the subject is "forced" to give the interrogator answers to questions, even if there is none.

2) We can't under geneva conventions. More importantly, we want a leg to stand on when we talk about other countries or terrorists groups using interrogation tactics against us.

3) It is just bad public policy. It makes the US look evil and ruthless and we really do not need anymore help with that.

9/11 Commission controversy

Johnothan, Panama City Beach, FL — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:00:45 GMT

I find it amazing the arm chair quarterbacks who are so quick on their judgements of U.S. actions and activities to get to the bottom of who wants to harm our Citizens. It amazes me the people who believe we should always play nice and simply ask the detainee's where the bad people are?? And if we don't get an answer simply shrug our shoulders and chalk it up to political correctness and feel good about ourselves that we're a "Civilized Society and above such actions". The whole corrupt idea of that thinking is the enemies of the U.S. see that as weakness not as a strength and ultimately it is biting us in the butt. Also, most of the people doing the critizing have never traveled to these areas of the world on their own, because of the fear of being kidnapped and truely tortured themselves. A large number of the middle easter countries still live as they did 1,000 yrs ago and still approach the world with that same simplistic view of their religion and way of dealing with it's enemies. What's really amazing is the rifts the fanatic's within our own country and in the islamic circles put on religion. The amazing twist is we all believe in the same God and it's all derived from the same basis, which makes me always wonder why so many rifts between us as a people of our world. It's always about the power over the people that drive men to do the things we do. Admitingly, I don't agree with the overall management of the "War on Terror". I do think the political influence of the government contractors do play a part in the dragging out of resolutions. I mean seriously...we fought a World War and accomplished victory in 4 years....

9/11 Commission controversy

Gary Westmoreland, Texarkana, Texas — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:03:12 GMT

I'm a firm believer that the fish rots from the head down. What else could we expect from our heads of government and its departments when so many poor choices have been made by our leadership in the past seven years. People of character have that quality of people at their side.

9/11 Commission controversy

Sal LI NY — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:08:34 GMT

I think that anyone who did not, or has not been effected by the actions that took place on 9/11 should not voice their opinions. As someone who lives in NYC, and was at ground zero in the days iimmediately following the attack I find it amusing that people from Canada or Wisconsin(scroll through the other comments to see) find it barbaric or absurd that the US would do "mean" things to the TERRORISTS! I for one would be more angry if my government did nothing. People need to wake up from the dream world they are living in, only God should take a life, but evil must be stopped and punished. I for one find it an insult to the memory of those who suffered and died on 9/11 when people try to use the "innocent terrorsts" to push for political gain. Believe it or not, you to will have to answer to God for your actions.

9/11 Commission controversy

dawnisis@gmail.com — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:10:00 GMT

Water boarding effective?

Remember the women and young girls waterboarded until they confessed to being witches?

They falsely confessed even knowing they would be burned alive by their accusers as soon as they did because waterboarding was so unbearable.

I guess they were all witches, huh?

9/11 Commission controversy

Jack Kelsey, O'Fallon, Illinios — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:10:08 GMT

Given that our country (America) deliberately targeted civilians in bombing campaigns during WWII - and succeeded in killing them by the hundreds of thousands (not even counting those who died from the nuclear bombings), I'm wondering why so many people are getting their shorts in a bunch over even the possibility of the torture of a few (hundred) actual bad guys.

During past wars we imprisoned Americans for speaking out against the government, speaking German in public, or for just being of German, Italian, or Japanese descent. What’s going on today is laughable in its mildness. It’s as if Americans don’t care about winning or even about their own security. Read the constitution, in times of emergency in this country, you don’t have any rights.

Skin the bastards alive if that’s what it takes. It’s less than they deserve.

9/11 Commission controversy

Sean Kingsman — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:19:28 GMT

I don't care how the CIA goes about getting information. These people are attacking our country and trying to destroy everything we hold dear. We should not set boundaries on what we do to get information from our enemies.

9/11 Commission controversy

Disentranced, Lincoln, RI — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:26:39 GMT

It is truly amazing that since 9-11 0ver THIRTEEN MILLION South Americans have crossed our southern border with Mexico.
Homeland Security's budget is huge... in the high billions of $'s yet at least THIRTEEN MILLION HAVE CROSSED OUR SOUTHERN BORDER.
It makes one wonder, how many have crossed our unprotected NORTHERN BORDER?
I do believe that if the "TERRORISTS" really wnated to get us, they would have by now.
As you cower and quake with fear over unknown killers our treasury has been not just decimated, but eradicated. Our money is worth less and less as the PRIVATE COMPANIES that have been hired to fight this (cough) war on terror are continuing their endless withdrawals of our monies.
Our valiant troops are being used and abused while the PRIVATE WAR MONGER BLACKWATER is being paid billions of our dollars more than our troops should.
Our infrastructures of bridges, highways, railways and publicly owned hospitals are declining at an unprecidented rate. Will they be fixed by the same company, Bechtel, that constructed the BIG DIG in Massachusetts?
Instead of being afraid of a few boogey men who don't look like white Americans, maybe we should be looking at the bible thumping salesmen who are telling us that Jesus says it's OK to kill and trust the sons and grandsons of the men who aided and were convicted of siding with Hitler in WW2.
Since when is it OK to take away our freedoms? What are we fighting for, exactly?
Try being grown-ups and stop depending on what Big brother is hyping on you.
The flim-flam men in our oval cesspool used to be tarred and feathered when caught bilking townspeople of their hard earned money. You're actually letting these crooks and liars get away with not only that but GENOCIDE. Yes, the people of Iraq are HUMAN! There is no excuse for what is being done to them. If you truly believe that then you are truly STUPID.
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

R. E. Marshall, Lawrenceburg, KY — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:27:59 GMT

A review of history might be in order. George Washington and the American colonists were also under attack from the most powerful nation in the world at the time. Yet, he determined that the colonial army would set a new standard of decency in the treatment of prisoners. For 200 years, America has been known for these standards of humane treatment until now. What has changed? We place more value in ourselves than in the values Americans have been willing to die for over 200 years.

9/11 Commission controversy

R. Reyna, Cookeville TN — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:31:41 GMT

WHAT A SHAME, WE USE WHATEVER METHODS WE DEEM NECESARY TO GET WHAT WE WANT AND WE STLL CLAIM IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE

9/11 Commission controversy

posthecomments@gmail.com — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:32:35 GMT

What kind of moderation is going on here? You haven't posted any comments for 14 hours?

9/11 Commission controversy

Shandy Melson, Fessenden, ND — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:33:59 GMT

I read some of these replies, and I am saddened. I sense fear and anger in the words. These fears and this anger drives us to justify or rationalize the inhumane treatment of other human beings - on ALL SIDES OF THE CONFLICT! It is a self-perpetuating cycle with no foreseeable conclusion. What is the differnce between torturing someone for information that may or may not be true and torturing someone for a political/philosophical ideal or statement?

"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Alexander Solzhenitsyn

9/11 Commission controversy

Member of USAF, Missouri — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:35:33 GMT

I am in the service and I FULLY support what was done! The main reason is because we are not 100% sure of what was done! We can only imagine and guess! I know about several interrogation tactics, not all are nice. These people we are trying to gain information from are trained to lie to us and will, in most cases, rather die before giving us actual information. To say that Bush, Cheney, and others are war criminals, you should just as well call the entire Congress and all the troops serving war criminals. Remember, we could not go to war without support from the Congress! Bush has some powers to go around Congress, but he did not have to ask after Sept 11! The entire country was wanting revenge! I can remember going to the store and the price of the US Flag was $20-30 for a standard 3x5. Today, you can buy the same flag for less than $10. Before, you would could not look around without seeing a flag on cars, houses, businesses, and even on clothing. Today is a much different view! This country would appear to have lost sight of the fact that there are many families that are still suffering from the attacks! Lets not forget about them! My flag flies everyday and I am PROUD to serve! The "war" on the US will never end as there are a lot of places and people that hate this country! It is still amazing to me though that these same people will flock here to work and make money!

We need to focus on more important things than this Commission Report. Things like bringing our troops home, securing our borders, gaining control over our own destiny and lives! Protecting our own family and friends! And most importantly, THIS COUNTRY!!!! The same country that gives us the right to read and write things like the 911 Commission Report and these postings!

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Rick Splooge — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:49:57 GMT

get the information we need, then shoot them. Who cares?

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Bill, Utah — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:52:36 GMT

Anyone who went through the old aircrew survival training probably experienced water-boarding. The instructors at the school used the same interrogation techniques our enemies were using (with the exception that they did not do permanent physical damage) to show you what you were in for if you were captured. The more gruesome stuff the enemy did (real torture) was shown to you but not demonstrated on students. This included things like slowly incising your abdomen so your intestines fell out on the ground while you were hanging from a rod lashed behind your back. The enemy also liked to pull out teeth and finger or toe nails one by one. Many people have a lot of resistance to pain, and many of our men who were captured resisted for some time before either breaking or dying under real torture.

The definition of torture is to punish or coerce by inflicting excruciating pain. Water-boarding in my estimation is an extremely effective interrogation tool (I never saw anyone able to resist this) but it isn’t torture. There is no real pain. They put plastic wrap over your face (so there is no possibility of actually drowning) and then pour water over you. You feel like you are drowning even though very little water is getting in. Panic comes quickly. Most people break (and will tell you anything you want to know) after only a half-minute to a minute of this treatment. If it appears the person is still not telling the truth, the technique can be repeated, but for most even the threat of a repeat is enough to have them spilling every secret they ever knew. The information gained from using this technique is extremely accurate.

Interrogators do not generally ask questions about events that have already happened. They can piece those things together from documentation (letters, emails, diaries, etc.) found when the person was captured. The terrorists who have undergone these techniques were captured under circumstances that left no doubt as to what they were up to. These are not school girls we are talking about here. The interrogators want to know what the group is planning, who will be involved, rendezvous points, safe houses, names of others involved, including active participants and support groups. This information is used to break up plots that would take innocent lives.

We are not at war with a signatory nation of the Geneva Convention here. We are at war with a group of radical and fanatic religious extremists who will not stop until they have accomplished their goals or are all killed. To think that by playing nice we will somehow prevent them from torturing anyone who disagrees with them (including our soldiers) is the most naïve thing I have ever heard. The torture techniques they use are true torture, not water-boarding.

9/11 Commission controversy

Josh Smith, Des Moines, Iowa — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:56:36 GMT

I would like to make an observation that no one even dares mention. Please observe all the names in the article. I will not mention what ethnic/religious affiliation an overwhelming proportion of them may be identified with. But, I would like to point out that it might just be in some ethnic/religious group's interest to keep the waters muddied enough with inaccuracies (911 commission report), innuendos (everyone who disagrees with government policy is anti american), lies (weapons of mass destruction), controversies (torture vs protecting us), misinformation (Sadam being a mad man), and misdirection (we are hated because we are americans) so that the american public is kept off balance enough to the ends that (1) the full truth about 911 will never be known (2) the US will be fighting a war against the horrid sadistic terroristic murdering religious extremist Muslims for the benefit of ... oh, lets speculate here ... Israel, and that (3) until all oposition to Israel's existence is wiped from the face of the earth, this proxy war that we are currently engaged in against terrorists will not end. I mention all this knowing that every country that threatens Israel suddenly becomes the enemy of the US and a threat to world stability. Here is just one recent vivid example, Iran. These Muslims hate the US for its arrogance, for its imperialistic tendencies, for its indifference to the poverty and dispair these people live in, for its disdain of Islamic based theocracies, for its extravagancies, but, most importantly for its support of Israel, which they hate even more. Because we prop it up, Israel will not cease to exist, therefore, we must be kept thinking that we fight against Muslems who want to see us destroyed, when in fact we are really fighting against Muslems who want to see an end to Israel. We will continually be pushed in the direction of fighting terrorism (those who oppose Israel's existence) until all the opposition is destroyed. At that point there will no longer be opposition to Israel's existence and the fighting will end. Buckle your seat belts as it will be a long bumpy ride. Now. Lets see this get by the ethnic/religious affiliated censors...you know who you are.

9/11 Commission controversy

Brent Jablonski, Red Wing, MN — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:00:55 GMT

The Goals of the terrorists were always to cause upheaval of our way of life. To undermine our world and cause us to fear. The direct result of our fear is what you see here. We are systematically loosing our freedoms and our rights in the name of our safety and security. It is like selling poison because it will kill the cold. We are a strong nation, not based upon our military prowess or our ability to systematically control another nation in a matter of days, but in our strength of community and well-being. Our strength is in our spirit and our drive to become a better nation. From our children to our elderly. This is the strength of our nation. It appears the terrorists have won. We have abandoned what was our strength in order to hide in our cage. Simple liberty is pushed aside in the spirit of keeping us safe. Our America is forever changed and the taint of what we have become will forever scar the face of what we once were...

9/11 Commission controversy

Joseph Buscarino, Hoover, Alabama — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:04:10 GMT

Torturing is the only way to obtain information in order to stop mass Terroism. If another 9/11 should occur again, I would place the fault of those who feel that this form of interagation is wrong. When in times where our country is in need of information that is vital to the safety of our nation then by all means lets do what is necessary.

9/11 Commission controversy

Jon C, Toney, Alabama — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:14:27 GMT

A) For those of you claiming a Christian stance, you need to read the Bible. And don't argue with me til you have because you obviously don't know it very well. No where does it say torture is okay, but it isn't the most peacceful book in places either.

B) LIBERALS. You're gonna force this country back into a civil war with your rhetoric and political correctness. We are americans, we are not racist, we are not out to get you, we are not illegally involved in a war, and the only aliens you've seen are the illegal ones that are costing our taxpayers millions.

C) Torture them till they talk. It's a good thing none of these liberal wimps are in charge.

9/11 Commission controversy

NoOneYouKnow, NYC, USA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT

Information taken by torture is completely unreliable. Also, Philip Zelikow, the head of the 9/11 commission, worked with the Bush Administration and directly with Condi Rice: He works for Bush, so he's totally compromised by conflicts of interest, at best.
Coverup, coverup, coverup.
Also, to the many not-so-bright wingnuts here:
The point of interrogation is to get reliable information from people who may or may not have it, whether they're terrorists or not. Interrogation is not revenge.
And because Al Qaeda does it, it's okay that we do it too? That makes us just as bad as them, just on the opposite side. Wingnuts make me tired.

9/11 Commission controversy

D Burks TF. Idaho — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:22:42 GMT

You guys are nuts , Open your eyes the world is not rose colored you can't have your cake and eat it to. McCain is no expert on torture ,the fact he was subjected to it dosen't qualify him to be an expert, in turn having cancer ,the experience dosen't make you an expert just a victim.

9/11 Commission controversy

Jim Knudsen Dubois, Wy — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:24:33 GMT

The techniques used by other governments to obtain secrets from the enemy(us, in many cases) have often been fatel. What Geneva Convention? Waterboarding pales in comparison to having your fingernails ripped out, electrical shocks delivered to "sensitive areas", fingers and toes removed by crushing with pliers, etc., etc., etc.. Our methods are mild in comparison and necessary for intel/ops to carry out their goals, and I might add, quite humane. We live in a violent world, like it or not, war is not pretty.

9/11 Commission controversy

Tim Banzhof, San Diego CA — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:26:44 GMT

This is directed specifically to the retired USAF guy in Illinois and general to all of the people who think letting the governemnt do "whatever it takes" to protect us is a good idea. The US is not a "weak" country now, we are by far the strongest military power on the planet. Nor are we getting weaker because we fail to torture people we have presumed guilty without due process. We are getting weaker because we are involved in artificial nation building exercises in a very dangerous part of the world. We are weaker still becasue our credibility with our friends is shot in the ass by our torture techniques on prisoners. We are cutting off our nose to spite our face. I have no time for extremists, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, nationalist, whoever they are. The rule of LAW is what separates the USA from our enemies and we abandon that at our own peril.

9/11 Commission controversy

Compton, Texas — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:44:09 GMT

Honestly, I'm not opposed to harsh, even violent techniques of information gathering to prevent significant violence from being commited. However, I find it troubling that such techniques are used to find out details about an event that has already happened. Seems a bit late in the game.
Regardless, such techniques will serve to be counter productive to reducing violence against western society because they perpetuate the image that the fundamentalist use. If we were to spend the time and money we do on combat,offering univerisal non-biased humanitarian aid, these groups would find themselves lacking recruits to execute thier plans.

9/11 Commission controversy

A.K. Oceanside NY — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:42:22 GMT

There seem to be a lot of responses from people who really don't think that America is "better than this". How sad for our Children.

9/11 Commission controversy

Ellen Johnson, Dallas, Tx — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:14:24 GMT

Over half the detainees at Gitmo have been released with no charges. These detainees were picked up or turned in by disgruntled neighbors, etc. for a reward. TORTURE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CORRECT INFORMATION. And what happens when an American is picked up and tortured? What right do we have to outrage? What kind of country have we become?

9/11 Commission controversy

John Doraemi, The Empire — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:16:10 GMT

It's amazing to me that people still believe in this obvious Big Lie, which is of Hitlerian, Joseph Goebbels proportions.

For six+ years we have been shown cover up after cover up, lie after lie, torture, war crimes, insiders thwarting investigations, etc. Yet, the sheeple still cling to the legitimacy of thie bogus "war on terror" and associated myths.

Fact 1: The government has not proven what happened on 9/11, they have only made claims (based on torturing suspects in medieval dungeons).

Fact 2: Numerous whistleblowers have pointed fingers at US government officials, Pakistani ISI (which is closely attached to some US officials), Saudi intelligence, and Israeli Mossad (where 200+ agents were detained in the US before and after the attacks).

Fact 3: Torture is designed to produce false confessions (see Salem witch trials, Spanish Inquisition), so that your tortured victims say whatever you want them to say in order to end the torture. This seems to be lost on far too many people.

There are numerous other facts which show 9/11 more of a "political decision" -- in the words of the editor of Jane's Intelligence Review -- than a surprise attack. Treason has been committed, and they get away with it, repeatedly.

Intro to 9/11
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2007/02/no-george-monbiot-these-are-facts-of.html

9/11 Commission controversy

DG, Tyngsborough, MA — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:32:41 GMT

Obviously this nation of ours consists of people who will never agree. Those of us who love our freedom and honor the U.S. Constitution accept the risks of being so free. We respect life and therefore would not torture our enemies. Itleaves us at risk of being tortured by our enemies; hopefully that term "our enemies" does not include our government or fellow citizens who do not get the whole concept of freedom. I'll take my chances on loving freedom versus becoming a torturer.

9/11 Commission controversy

john, richmond indiana — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:13:36 GMT

Its curious that no one objects to the killing of terrorists ... just their retention at GITMO. Why not just adopt a policy of take-no-prisoners?

9/11 Commission controversy

Tom Gallagher, Levittown, PA — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:51:38 GMT

And how many American Lives were saved by what you are condemning!!

9/11 Commission controversy

Mark, Concord, CA — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:13:53 GMT

Ever experience almost drowning? If you've done much ocean/water sports you may have, I've experienced it a couple of times. Didn't keep me out of the water. I think the terrorists will get over it too.

9/11 Commission controversy

AMD, Newport Beach, CA — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:06:40 GMT

I have never read so many ignorant words in my life. You people who believe and support these torture-induced confessions disgust me and I am at a complete loss of words of how the American people believe anything written in the 9/11 commission report. GROW UP! WAKE UP! Ask the right questions and get off your rah-rah patriotic high horse! A real American patriot would take the time to see through this whitewash. All it takes is a little research to see that the official story of 9/11 was fabricated to obtain public support for an unjustified pro-longed war in the middle east. Some of you should try stepping outside of your false reality and see the world and perhaps meet some of the people that, according to our gov't, want to kill you! Unfortunately, a sense of hopelessness overcomes me as I read these comments and realize that the majority of America is far too brainwashed to change. I'm convinced that conclusive evidence will come out someday proving that 9/11 was an inside job, yet many of you will still believe the "official" story. True freedom does not exist in this country at this time, and it will not exist until a critical mass stands up for what they believe in and fights the fear that holds our society in a stranglehold.

9/11 Commission controversy

Eric, Rochester, NY — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:49:04 GMT

The 9/11 commission report was supposed to be an impartial, fact-finding report on the TRUTH behind the terror attacks of 9/11. It simply was not. It was deliberately directed away from many important questions especially why building 7 collapsed at 5pm that was not hit by a plane and had only a few isolated fires. Like the Warren Commission before it, the 9/11 Commission Report did not give the American people the truth.

9/11 Commission controversy

David Gardner Philadelphia, PA City of Brotherly Love — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:40:18 GMT

You who say that torture is acceptable if it saves lives have never been subjected to torture. You probably can't imagine yourself or your loved ones being tortured - guilty or innocent - it is wrong and the information obtained from a torture victim is questionable. It is also questionable if torturing anyone has ever saved a life. When your enemy knows you torture, you become as guilty as your enemy of the retaliation that is incited. If we are a righteous nation then we should hold ourselves to a standard that is above reproach. But half of you sound as if you are full of hate and prefer our nation’s abandonment of morality - justified by our being attacked on September 11th. Please do yourself a favor and study the history of our foreign policy and our intelligence operations. You might find that we really had a hand in creating our Middle Eastern enemies. That doesn't make their actions right but we should use restraint in our actions in this world. If you make enemies of all your neighbors - no one has remorse when you are destroyed. At one time the world felt for us when we were attacked. It is the direction we have taken since that has alienated us with the world and turned us against each other.

9/11 Commission controversy

Henry Pelifian — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:26:16 GMT

The fact that gross incompetence was never a finding, or even hinted at, may show that the two political parties are more interested in protecting themselves than the American people. The evidence is overwhelming that malfeasance occurred in the current administration.

Accountability in government is an orphan without a home in the United States now.

9/11 Commission controversy

Bov — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:49:58 GMT

Looks like the CIA defense team has found this story. The rest of world happens to agree that waterboarding is torture, so those on here comparing it to beheading or questioning it are obviously doing so to try to defend the CIA. This is one of the better stories I've ever seen on a mainstream news site. Thank you

9/11 Commission controversy

Sickened, U.S.A. — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:33:07 GMT

Mirror the people you despise and you are them. Amazed at how many people want to go back to the good old days of Medieval Europe. Look into how many people this admin. released, with an "oops, sorry." I guess if we just torture everyone we'll find out everything. And now any enemy has an excuse to torture any American captured. Lovely people, nice Americans.

9/11 Commission controversy

Robert Jones Ph.D, Van Horn, Tx. jonesito@windstream.net — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:21:19 GMT

Over 3000 people were killed that day right here in America. Damage to other people, property including the aircraft and of course the twin towers. It was carnage this country has never seen before. What it was; was unthinkable.
If the interrogaters had to get a little rough with those heathen terrorists more power to them. Why is it that we are supposed to pussy foot around when our nation is in big trouble?
Where are some of the people coming from anyway?
Wake up America, or soon enough we might not have one.

9/11 Commission controversy

Pat G, San Diego, CA — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:27:45 GMT

I m amazed at the dozens of ignorant fools that would gladly give away ALL accountability from this administration. The Bush administration may as well be labeled the Mafia. They are corrupt to the bone and have succeeded in scaring the 50% of the nation that are cowards into allowing this administration to become a totalitarian dictatorship, NO QUESTIONS ASKED- because oh my the "terrorists" are going to get us! Well I have news for you- YOUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS the terrorist. And you have been duped by the complicit media. Have you not caught on yet, when the lies have been slowly leaking out when they can no longer contain them? Wake up. Your current government does not even honor its oaths to the Constitution. Your current executive- installed by the Supreme Court in 2000- breaks the law every day, claiming executive privilege. Your current executive openly broke the FISA law, even as he stated it in very clear terms and claimed to follow it. I can go on and on, but you will blindly follow the war-monger war criminals, because they are still able to frighten you with the boogy-men they create and with the statements tortured out of people to back up their stooges. Historically dictators have used torture to create and prop up their lies and manufactured history. That is the only way they can get "witnesses" to back up their fabricated stories.

9/11 Commission controversy

Frank Tolopko, Otis, MA — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:48:07 GMT

There seems to be a lot of moral outrage on both sides of the torture-to-get-information issue. The simple fact is that torture, when used to elicit intelligence, is totally useless in obtaining that information. The information unwillingly given could be true, could be false, could be a blind alley to buy time, anything to stop the suffering. It's then up to the interrogators to figure out which trail to follow. Doesn't sound like a very efficient or productive methodology to me.

9/11 Commission controversy

K. NYC — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:17:11 GMT

Thank God for the CIA and all the Intelligence Agencies. They are among the few and proud that still protect our country. I challenge anyone who is attempting to disassemble the finite resources we have to secure and protect what is left of our country. Post 9-11 we were supposed to have gotten a stronger millitary, intelligence agency, first line defense, port, border security, and critical/ essential resources for fire, police, ems, critical infrastructure, agriculture, healthcare, education, and other entities were going to be much more strongly supported and better. In fact the exact opposite has happened. Pay scales and resources for these entities both home and abroad have substantially been cut back- so far in NYC that many people (the most highly qualified)are declining to take these same positions. With a National debt now in the trillions-and no explaination of where those funds went, a big hole in the ground where a 9-11 memorial is supposed to be, a country on the verge of an economic recession, taxes, tolls, energy, housing, education, healthcare, and other major crises going on- what lessons have we actually learned? We have become a politically correct society where illegal immigrants have more rights and privledges than the middle class in our own country. We are losing our language, culture, religion, history, constitution, flag, laws, security, protection, and essential resources as millions of unchecked personnel keep pouring over the borders. How many of these people are carrying diseases, are murderers, pedophiles, rapists, drug dealers, gang leaders, black market items, weapons- not those obtained legally and are protected under the US citizens Bill of Rights, are terrorists, have criminal records, are destroying our economy, destroying our educational sytem, healthcare, agriculture, and other systems- both directly and indirectly. The burden has fallen squarely onto the shoulders of the middle class families and their knees are buckling. These issues can not be ignored and are direclty attributable to 9-11. Other countries including those we are supposedly at war with are buying our countries land amd corporations right out from beneath us at record paces. The dollar has crashed and they are talking about getting rid of the penny to round it up to the nearest nickel? Come to NYC where if you are an illegal immigrant you receive free education, healthcare, welfare, housing, medical benefits, equipment, resources, don't have to pay taxes, and are probably making more than a middle class person who can't afford a home or take care of their families even on three jobs- paying the required taxes. All the increases occured directly after 9-11? Maybe I am expecting to much from our country?
If you want freedom and respect come to this country leagally and stop undermining the entire system. Those that aid or support these illegal activities especially politicians looking for votes and corporations should be held personally liable for all the damages incurred. Just a thought?

9/11 Commission controversy

Paul, New York, NY — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:17:24 GMT

All this infromation does is once again remind us that the government is hiding the real truth behind what happened on 9/11/01. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the 9/11 commission report is full of gaping holes, assumptions, omissions, and plain intelligence insulting nonsense. Maybe someday we will have a leader who truly cares enough to give the families of the victims the answers they deserve

9/11 Commission controversy

Matt Lawrence, KS — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:54:38 GMT

1/2 of the alleged 9/11 hijackers are alive, and the other half were trained at US military bases.

Never forger the Gulf of Tonkin.

Our military had no response on 9/11 for over and hour and a half.

We were running war games simulating hijacked planes flying into hi-rise buildings at the same time it happened in real life.

9/11 Commission controversy

John Roberts, Boston, MA — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:19:43 GMT

What a great country. I cannot believe some of the comments I am reading here. You people are driven by fear and any ethics this country once had are being tossed away, by the government and some of its people (30% some percent by George's latest numbers). Please look who we are dealing with. This is not even a relevent enemy. Imagine if we were dealing with someone on the same level as the US. Instead we are being drawn down to their level. This once great country has taken many steps backwards in the last seven years. This war has not made things any better, it has just extended the damage of 911, weakening our economy, killing and wounding many brave men and women, and dividing our nation. Who is really winnning this fight. It is a very sad time in our history. Wake up and look at the big picture America!!!

9/11 Commission controversy

icebox-o — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:26:34 GMT

9/11 Commission controversy

L. G., Seattle, Washington — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 08:30:27 GMT

The only time our government should have the right to torture people, or the citizens of the U.S., is when the government is 100% sure that person is a terrorist. Otherwise the person could very well be some completely innocent man being framed. The 9/11 Commission Act is risky. Does is counter the Constitution? Does it remove the rights from possible innocent victims?

9/11 Commission controversy

unknown, DC — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 08:37:47 GMT

Two Wrongs Do Not Make A Right

Just because other countries torture our soldiers, does not justify us torturing theirs. Torturing the terrorists of 9/11 can be justified--for intel, but the 9/11 Commission Act is risky.

9/11 Commission controversy

Cheryl, Los Angeles — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:30:13 GMT

Imagine you're vacationing in a foreign land and you get picked up on suspicion of a murder you know nothing about. You're tortured and forbidden a lawyer or contact w/ anyone, because, after all they "know" you are guilty and warrant such treatment... even though you're really innocent.

How can any of you say they did it? Did you witness them doing it? You "blog tough" here, but under the "right" conditions, I bet almost all of us would confess to something we didn't do to end extreme torture. Were these people involved in 9-11? Could you have just as well gotten them to admit they'd walked on Jupiter? The circumstances used invalidate all info acquired -- FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

I would have more trust + faith in the Commission Report if they hadn't brushed aside so many of the eyewitness testimonies and loads of scientific evidence that contradicts their torture-derived "findings". But the only thing that trumps evidence in placating an angry mob (us, post-9/11) is a "confession" and a head on a platter... anyone's. How sad for us.

Thanks for covering this extremely important issue, NBC. Keep the info coming.

9/11 Commission controversy

american — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:16:46 GMT

i Notice lots still believe 9-11 war Terrorist, Probably the same who Believed there was WMD.... i have investigated all i can of 9-11 , beyond what the corporate Media has shared with the public, and after finding War games, PNAC plans and studying Photos from drjudywood.com and other web sites, i believe it was an inside job to Demo the Asbestos Violation buildings, WTC7 shows it.

9/11 Commission controversy

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