Court orders more jail time for American terrorist

Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 4:28 PM ET

By Pete Williams, NBC News Justice Correspondent

A federal appeals court Friday upheld the conviction of a U.S. citizen accused of plotting with al-Qaida to assassinate President Bush and carry out other terror attacks on American soil. But the court sent the case back to the trial judge with orders to impose a harsher sentence.

Abu Ali, the son of a man who worked at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, was found guilty by a jury of meeting up with al-Qaida recruiters in Saudi Arabia, where he was attending classes to further his Islamic studies. Saudi authorities arrested him in 2003 after discovering a terrorist cell in Riyadh.

He told his captors that he had taken al-Qaida weapons training. And in a videotaped confession, he said he agreed to help assassinate President Bush somewhere in the U.S. and to attack planes bound for the U.S. from other countries.

On Friday, by a vote of 2-1, a federal appeals court panel rejected claims by Ali's lawyers that his confession was coerced and that he was tortured, finding that the jury had ample evidence to conclude that he made his statements voluntarily. But the court said the trial judge wrongly imposed a sentence of 30 years in prison, rather than a term closer to the maximum allowed, life in prison. Ali, the trial judge had said, "never planted any bombs, shot any weapons, or injured any people, and there is no evidence that he took any steps in the United States with others to further the conspiracy."

Ali's case was similar to that of John Walker Lindh, the American who joined the Taliban, who was given a 20-year-prison sentence, the judge said in sentencing Ali. But the appeals court ruled that Ali's offenses were far more serious than those of Lindh, who was never accused of plotting terror attacks against the U.S. or of joining an al Qaeda conspiracy. "The degree of harm contemplated by Abu Ali was broader in scope and more devastating in terms of its potential impact," the court said.

Prosecutors praised today's decision. "Abu Ali was part of a dangerous al-Qaida cell that sought to carry out attacks against--and within--the United States," said Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney who handled the case.

Though the appeals court was divided, all three judges agreed on one point--the decision to try Ali in a regular civilian court rather than declaring him an enemy combatant and shifting his case to the U.S. military. "The criminal justice system does retain an important place in the ongoing effort to deter and punish terrorist acts without the sacrifice of American constitutional norms and bedrock values," all three judges said.

Comments

Finally, someone has the balls to deal with these people.  Keep up the good work!!
That's good, he needs more time in jail.
What a crock. This guy did none of the things he was convicted for and he never publicly claimed that he intended to do any of these acts.  Apparently, it was only through coercion and probably torture that the government got him to "confess".  Now they want to sentence him to life in prison.  God help anyone who the government may suspect.  If they want to set you up and get a conviction, they will have little trouble doing so.  Yet another example of our Constitutional protections being weakened.  
Well too bad he didn't get to eliminate Bush.  Who knows how many American lives would be saved from the needless war if that idiot was taken our back in 2003.
Its too bad that the Courts are allowing testimony and evidence that was obtained by investigations other than US prosecutors where torture cannot be ruled out, and basically leaving the decision to the jury.  It too biased to allow questionable testimony and then say its up to the jury to believe if this was obtained legally or illegally.  It is not the jury's duty to decide whether certain evidence should be allowed or not.  I really hope that Congress doesn't confirm any more Federal judges that Bush nominates, and waits until the next President has a chance to nominate people with a more fair disposition.  
About time someone actually thought about doing what every American knows should have been done a long time ago.  Bush and his administration are a threat to world peace and should be taken out immidiately.
"Abu Ali was part of a dangerous al-Qaida cell that sought to carry out attacks against--and within--the United States," said Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney who handled the case. If our liberals some of our in congress had their way I believe Ali would be given a medal for his thoughts.  Personally I believe in President George W. Bush and love both he and his entire family (they are all hero's in my book).  Ali should get life and a day.
I think it is great that the court did that I hope he gets life with out parole.  As for the Judge well he has his reasons but he should have given him a longer sentence to begin with... Thank you to the Judges that had the good sense to make that call.....
Save the harsher sentence for those who have earned it!  It's infantile to "throw the book" at someone just because they're an easy target.  Focus on those who are actually doing, not just talking.
Isn't it called treason and isn't that one of the highest crimes in our court system...if you are committing this type of crime, or even attempting it, shouldn't it be death...yes!!!
Personally,if there is even the slightest hint at shennanigans regarding any person within this country, foreign or otherwise, they should be given the maximum sentence allowed by law.  Everyone hates us but everyone wants to come here and live.  I think we should throw the UN members out as well.  They live here off the fat of the land, are never accountable to anyone, but continually bad-mouth us and vote against us.  I say stop all aid to these countries.  They want to be terrorists, let them be terrorists in their own countries.
Bush has killed over 5,000 American troops, not to mention I believe the count is over 1,000,000 (that's right one million there aren't any extra zeros in that) Iraqi civilians.  That is far worse a crime than Sadam ever committed.  To think George Bush and his admin don't deserve to be executed is treason.
Haha, I guarentee he WAS in fact tortured. I wouldn't put it past our useless, power-hungry government. They will lie and kill for their money while hard-working Americans are more poor than ever before. The Bush Administration disgusts me, as it should disgust all of you as well. Unless you have no brain, which a lot of Americans are lacking unfortunately.
Since when do we send ANYONE to prison for "thinking about" or even planning to kill someone.  I called the police once when threatened with a gun by an man.  Their response, "We can't arrest anyone for making threats.  They have to shoot you first."  Abu Ali is guilty by association if this article is accurate!
"The degree of harm contemplated by Abu Ali was broader in scope and more devastating in terms of its potential impact," the court said.


So be careful what you think in right wing America. You could go to prison for life.
What I would like to know and am still bewildered on is why was the father and son "Navy Team" convicted of selling secrets to the Russians (the worst selling of secret information in history) not put to DEATH for their TREASON? The penalty for treason IS death.
We should just sit down and talk with him.  Then he won't want to kill anymore.
Kill him, and stop giving any Visas to any middle easterners until we terminate all of the Extremist.
Thank you for recognizing the enemy who is out to destroy our way of life and for dealing with the problem head on..... and with us in mind.
Like 30 years and life in prison is that much different
So, shelleyintexas, what do you suggest, wait till he shoots the president, then sentence him?
   A stunt aimed at giving trials to all detainees, most of whom likely do not have "ample evidence" compiled against them which could stand judicial review. Few, if any, have freely recorded confessions.  
   Just in case it is overlooked, tragically, a man released from detention because even the military conceded they didn't have quite enough evidence to hold him, later blew himself up. We have enough criminals walking the streets because of some technical rule that was violated or evidence wasn't properly kept, even locally let alone internationally, so as to meet the highest tests of the courts and adding terrorists and  suicide bombers to that list is an unacceptable proposition. Unless the courts are willing to accept liability for just such cases I think the bar should be lowered for evidence collected during military actions.
Shelleyintexas,
We have been sending those who think about crimes to prison since around 2001. Occasionally, we have done it before then too. In a fascist state, thoughts ARE crimes, thinking is criminal, and those who do it are criminals. Thoughtcrime is now a reality in America. Our Constitutional rights have been suspended, allowing the government to imprison us without trial. Corporations are realizing record profits, while enjoying shelter from their crimes, and average Americans are suffering and broke. Welcome to 1984.
Not harsh enough. What do you think these people are going to do when they get out of jail? Live peacefully among us? To think so is both ignorant and dangerous. These people are fanatics and cannot be reasoned with. Anyone who associates with a group who would use their own children as a weapon deserves the most harsh sentence. I'm sorry, but jail is not far enough. I promise you if the roles were reversed they would not be as kind.
The police officer misinformed shelleyintexas by telling her that a man cannot be arrested for threatening her with a weapon:  that's assault (as opposed to battery)--but hey, you're dealing with Texas lawmen.  Little Abu Ali should feel lucky to receive a sentence that allowed him to remain alive.  Where else but in America and other socialist Western democracies?
Shelleyintexas,

You appear to be right on.  We should release guys like this so they can attack a few planes and kill a few people.  Then, we can arrest them afterward and not have to worry about infringing upon their rights.  I think we should permit up to 50 dead bodies before we act, but I am open to a larger number if you think it is appropriate.

Poor, poor, poor ol' Abu.  He really did get the shaft.  I can't believe that we treated him with such a callous attitude.  It is a downright disgrace don't you think?

But, oooops, if memory serves me right, plotting to kill the President of the US is a crime.


Shelleyintexas,

Are you kidding me?  Please take criminal Justice 101 before writing such nonsense.
An American Terrorist? Sounds to me more like a freedom fighter.When they tried to remove the mass murderer Hitler we cheered.When they try to remove the mass murderer Bush they call them a terrorist.You tell me ...what's the difference?
Just the first step in stamping out political dissent.  Whats next, throw Michael Moore in jail for wishing president bush was dead?
in response to shelleyintexas, with the patriot act the government can lock up anyone they want without even giving a reason, all in the name of terrorism.  People still dont know this?
Homegrown Terrorism Bill and the Patriot Act: took ALL those Freedoms AWAY from you.

We are all pretty much in the dirt if you decide to think out loud.

Scary stuff indeed but it's the truth.
Yes people can be prosecuted and have been for a number of years.  Here in California it is called making a terrorist threat and it can be used against someone stalking another for example.  It has been used many times here in California and I am sure other jurisdictions have similar laws in their penal code.
shelley, there has to be something you are leaving out about your story, because it is a crime to threaten someone with a deadly weapon.
If Saddam was guilty of crimes warranting death, certainly Bush and Cheney (and a whole lotta' other criminals in their administration) are.

I'm not condoning murder or assassination (Bush and Cheney have been handling those just fine without my assistance), I'm saying that in a court of "law" similar to the court of military occupation that convicted Saddam, Bush and Cheney (and all the rest of their minions) would fare much worse.

I'd really like to see that trial on Court TV -- LIVE FROM IRAQ! -- make OJ look like an ice cream social. :)

Heads would definitely roll!! :D
I for one, can NOT understand "why" so many "AMERICANS" are NOT understanding  our CONSTITITUTION is "purposely" being picked apart, and "anytime" a person says "pretty much"...ANYTHING these days they can be charged. The founders would be outraged, shame on those of you  that "stand" behind such a UNCONSTITUTUIONAL charge!
Another political prisoner.
I believe the previous commentor needs to refer to the criminal definition of "conspiracy".  I suspect that she will be surprised by the definition.
ShelleyinTexas:  then that means that Texas doesn't have a law against terroristic threats.  Threatening someone is illegal in some places.
Should make a myarter out of Him.  There are to many bleeding hearts out there, they think we can negoiate with these extreamists.  If you think you can, go ahead and try it.  They don't want to live in peace with us, they want us dead!!!
To Shelleyintexas: Your police are just lazy. Making threats, especially with a weapon, is called felony menacing. The man should have been arrested.
You would have waited for this zealot to carry out the plans to assinate the President and kill untold others by bombing planes?  I feel the correct decision has been made.  We must protect our country from any more terrorist attacks.  Seems all too many have forgotten the horrible attack of 9/11.  I have not.
A person can be convicted of planning an offense - usually called "conspiracy to commit (whatever crime)" if there is both talk and at least one overt act towards committing the crime.

This is a crime that obviously requires careful use by prosecutors. If Joe rants about wanting Jack dead, and then, because Joe likes target shooting, Joe goes out and buys a gun he intends to use to put holes in paper, Joe could still potentially be convicted of conspiracy to murder Jack.

On the other hand, as ShelleyinTexas points out, if they don't allow conspiracy convictions, they do have to wait until someone gets shot or killed.
It's absolutely disgusting that someone could be given life in prison for thinking about commiting a crime. Our "justice" system is sick.
what a shamefull country. To go after poor people just to make money out of it. And the worst are the people who allow that to happen. Cowardly people who dont care that innocent people get the death penalty or life in prison. How many simple-minded people live in the United States who believe everything the Government says. All of you are going to end up in prison a
What a disaster, setting up a military tribunal that is possibly unconstitutional to deal with these issues!  The disregard for the law and law enforcement by the current administration has led to this public relations disaster of Guantanamo and has established this questionable legal process.  

Making those who engaged in terrorism into "enemy combatats" without any legal rights has undermined our nation's commitment to the law as a legitimate forum for serving justice.  Now we create a questionable justice process.

Another interesting observation: Those who have argued for the death penalty as a supreme method of deterring crime or "terror" must now give pause when they see that these "terrorists" are asking to be executed so they can be martyrs.  

Ain't it great that we feed right into their martyrdom psychology?  That's why killing terrorists these past years only martyrs them and  multiplies the number who want to sacrifice their lives for the radical cause.  It's called the cycle of violence and we've fed it well over the past 5 years.  

I'm watching with baited breath to see how we will continue to bungle this part of the socalled "war on terror."

Don Knudson, Rosemount, MN    
keep him locked up for good.
This is a joke, right?

Do we really send American citizens to jail because some authority in Saudi Arabia says he "contemplated" a crime?

I suppose one would have to read the entire judgment transcript, but I would hope it contains references to an actual conspiracy to commit a crime as opposed to just a fleeting thought of one.
Shelly, His "association" was with Al Qaida.  Who we declaired war with years ago.  He is lucky that he was tried in our court, the Americans that were beheaded did not have that privilage!
Conspiring to assassinate the President of the United States is definitely a crime - in a big way!  Conspiracy is not easy to prove.  If they managed to convince the court that his actions were, in fact, conspirational, then that's all she wrote.
Good I hope they gve him more time. This is someone we don't need free in this country.Also it is a crime to plan. In Texas you can go to jail for mer planning of a crime. Thats what he was doing.


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Deep Background is NBC News’ investigative blog. It covers national security, terrorism, spies, Iraq, and politics, as well as government waste, fraud and abuse. It is edited by NBC News Senior Investigative Producer Jim Popkin.

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