Report: Army failed to perform tests on body armor

  This could be serious or it could be just a documentation error. First Article testing is generally only required for first time manufacturer. If the item has recently passed first article testing, then such testing can be waived.Generally after passing first article testing, the company and part number become an approved source.
  If these companies had never passed first article testing, then that is very serious.  

Man would I love to see the results for the Beretta 9mm. Did they even test it? It would have failed miserably in any environment outside a indoor firing range. But then someone might not have received a kickback for that contract.

I got five dollars that says Gen. Brown will soon be working for one of those armor contractors as soon as he is out of the service.

is this this Brigadier General Mark Brown the same Brigadier General Mark Brown that said Dragonskin armor didnt meet up to the standards of current body armor?

Typical cronyism. $3 billion for the corporations (from our taxes), but no guarantee that the soldiers are wearing good armor.

Where do I sign up to make millions selling defective products without accountability?

It appears to me that the Army has done a far better thing in ensuring that soldiers have a reasonable level of protection as a first concern versus ensuring they follow all the contracting rules?

WHAT ELSE IS NEW - AS LONG AS OUR GUYS ARE THERE TO PROTECT BUSH'S PRECIOUS OIL HE COULD CARE LESS IF THEIR BODY ARMOUR IS UP TO SNUFF

VIETNAM VET

My company is in the first article inspection business. Even the simplest of items like a screw or bracket require certification before they are allowed to be shipped and used on customer parts. To think the DOD would allow this step to be missed suggests this branch needs an audit right now. These are our troops, not fence posts.

This from our the lack of oversight from the corrupt and inept Republican-led Congress and backed up from a weasle-like, so-called "Wartime President." The nut doesn't fall from the tree here. And what about good old Donald "You don't go to war with the Army you want but the Army you got" Rumsfeld? What a load of sh*t, and McCain will be no better!

Appears there are many law suits to follow. They are responsible for killing how many GI's to keep this faux war going?  What a disgrace!  Once again. We are a 3rd world country thanks to bush and the GOP.

I saw this moron on TV.
He needs to go to jail.

Probably more contracts thrown to Bush buddies,  No bid contracts are their specialty.  Why would they care whether or not the stuff works.  Money is king!

If there are "any" changes to the "any" of the manufacturing key factors that can effect the test results another "first article" test may be needed. These changes can be small such as the size of the fiber, or large such as number of layer of fiber. They can seem innocent such as a  change in the molecular string creating a fiber. It takes a lot of knowledge to know when a test is needed and a lot of fortitude to make the call. Because these tests are expensive and if an item fails the impact can be huge. This is due to some companies proceeding forward with the manufacturing process before they get the test results. When a part fails the test, all the parts that are impacted because they were made to the "new" planning have to be accounted for and processed. Usually through a process called material review board action. And that is a whole world in it self. And if you don't know about it you would be surprised what is involved.

Thank you CPT Elledge.  Somebody who's actually involved in wearing the stuff.  I work in Army acquisition for another hardware commodity area, and I know BG Brown quite well.  If he's saying the proper rules were followed, I have no doubt they were.

General Brown et al. make me just sick.  To Hell with the soldier what is his next career move.  Send him over there in harm's way with the body armor he approved.  The troops buy Dragon Skin with their own money and are forbidden to wear  it eventhough it is superior to GI issue.  This is nuts.

BG Brown should be tried for deleliction of duty, then assigned to Iraq in a combat arms unit where HIS life depends on his equipment.

Kazimoto,
Test results for a Beretta 9mm??? It would fail miserably?? You truely know nothing about body armor. That round can be stopped in almost any armor.

Its becoming obvious over time that the Army was poorly led, run, and managed throughout most of this "war on terror", whereas the Marine corps for the most part is run well by top notch military commanders. If I had a child I know which branch I would want him or her to join. I would feel much better knowing they were a marine, a place where the organization places top priority on the welfare of its members, than compared to the Army. Army Strong should mean Army inept and corrupt.

This is nothing new. The AR-10 preformed better than the M-14 in testing. The .45 Auto preformed better than the 9mm and is much stronger than the weak framed Beretta. Once the Good o'l boys decide on something it's done, no matter what the consequinces to the solder.

This is a "command responsibility" issue.
The Asst. chief of Staff - Procurement & his subordinate commanders need to be retired at the grade of O-6.

why do we keep seeing the same shoddy accounting for tax payer monies. Those responsible should be fined, fired and jailed. Congress should be blamed also.

Cpt Elledge,

You know as well as I that IG requirements and federal regulations are not waived because we are at war. As a former Army Officer, I find it repugnant that a General Officer would push an agenda that finds it acceptable to do an end run on legitimate requirements. We got into this war because a significant number of senior officers were afraid to speak their mind and stand up to SecDef. They were derelict in their duties as was this General.

This belief ingrained in the Officer Corps that we'll get it done whatever the cost is not acceptable and ultimately costs lives. It took me a long time to lose that when I got out so I share the blame but we cannot allow it to continue or make excuses for those that do.

This is typical of our government, and high ranking military officials. I guess the military officials feel that if our government officials can get their palms greased under the table, and get away with it, then they can as well. When will it all stop? Hurry up Obama!

re: Report: Army failed to perform tests on body armor: CPT ELLEDGE See Demarest's remarks above.  And yes it is one and the same--good job connecting the dots.  MSNBC should hire you to do their research, what little they do-do!

The U.S. Army conducts rigorous and extensive testing of body armor to ensure that it meets Army standards and is safe for use by Soldiers in combat.  As other posted comments indicate, the fact that the Defense Department Inspector General was not completely able to verify testing and approval of first-article testing or aspects of contracting files does not mean the body armor did not meet specifications.  

The Army requires two levels of performance verification prior to acceptance of body armor issued to Soldiers: First Article Test (FAT) and Lot Acceptance Test (LAT).  These two test requirements verify that body armor meets U.S. Army standards before being issued to Soldiers and ensure production processes remain in check.  The Army's response to the draft report states that first-article testing is a regular and consistent current business practice for purchasing body armor.

The current body armor is doing what it is designed to do:  stop or slow bullets and fragments, and reduce the severity of wounds.  Prevention of injuries to our men and women is a top priority for the Department of the Army and the Department of Defense.  America owes its thanks to CPT Elledge and all our Soldiers defending this Nation.

Isn't this the same Lisa Myers that did the inaccurate portrayal of the efficacy of DragonSkin?  Pinnacle Armor, DragonSkin's manufacturer, is now on the debarred list for the federal government prohibiting them from ALL federal contracts due to false advertising and sales.  They, as well as Ms. Myers, cannot be trusted when it comes to discussions involving body armor.

Has anyone inquired as to the number of deaths attributable to failure of the Army's current body armor (faulty or not) in combat?  The answer is a big fat zero.

This is all just sour grapes.

I would like to see them test the body armor that is in use. Take them off of the soldiers and test the used ones. What is the life span of the armor after rain, sweat, sand has be on them?

How much effort can it take? Select 30 vests at random, put them on mannequins , fire one shot at the front and back with an AK-47 at five meters.  If the rounds don't penetrate, the vest passes.  This is an afternoon exercise.  Of course the vendor donates the vests free of charge.  If they are really confidant, they can wear the vests.

It appears that once again the soldier in the field gets crap gear while the O6s/O7s get great post-retirement jobs!  The SAPI/ESAPI plates are a proven inferior product, that doesn't mean it hasn't protected the troops.  It means there is better equipment available and it wasn't procured.  And those officers and senior NCOs in the procurement field have/will benefit from this.

Gosh, you're right Capt. Elledge...  We don't need no stinking accountability!

I'll bet you would have real special words for any soldier that gave you a lame excuse like that.

How could you know the "Army has done a far better thing" when there is no testing or accountability? Apparently the Marines had no difficulties doing the right thing. Typical Republican Greed. Funnel tax money to the corporations without checks and balances.

This is appalling, I served in Iraq and I have no idea why any service is not using dragon skin, my parents bought me dragon skin before being deployed and it saved my life more than once and could have saved alot more had government kick backs not been involved, these leaders and officials need to understand the real definition of a patriot-one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

We conducted a test of the Dragon Skin Body Armor system in Virgina Beach on March 13 2008.  We fired 20 rifle rounds into the chest of the vest, then put in an additional 150 rounds of 9mm. The vest did not fail, we could not say the same for the plates.  The plates we used are put to the same standards as the current plate technology.  The plate failed after the second round, the round turned the plate to dust.  I have the utmost respect for the Pinnacle Armor, who is in this for saving lives.

I can't say one way or another with the supposed lack of oversight on testing of the bodyarmor.  How about a totally independant organization that tests the products used by the armed forces.  No matter what the Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy needs, this organization tests it to specs and deems whether it passes or not.  Good, Great, or Poor idea, not sure, but what do you think.

Many of you are talking about a dead issue when it comes to the body armor. Dragon skin was tested and failed in comparison to IBA. Dragon skin ways significantly more and most of these independent test we all hear about were conducted on flat surfaces in ideal conditions. The human body is not flat and when adverse weather is applied to the Dragonskin it comes apart. Early versions of the Dragon skin test in 2004 used wire to secure the disks and frequently came apart. Newer versions use adhesive, but are still prone to separating.  

As for the issue at hand, it clearly states that the documentation for why the identical item was not retested is in question. I for one will wait to see what the program manager produces to support their decision.

What some seem to not realize, Is that some paperwork was stepped around to get the equipment IN The FIELD !
As I was one who was deployed without armor for 2 months, I appalud the higher ups for getting off their rears and getting me protection. So some t's didn't get crossed.  Did I care? NO

You think this smells?  Wait 'till the fertilizer hits the ventilation system concerning the way the Army is trying to get a new vest that's really the old vest still made by the old vendors.  Boy oh boy, the RPMs on that old revolving door at the five sided whorehouse must really be picking up.

First; no reports indicate sapi/esapi had failed to protect when employed properly. Second; why refer to difference in Marines and Army...its the SAME ARMOR!! If one service is using it ALL are using it...generally no gov't is going to have more than one supplier/source for the same item Third; Would I prefer to wear 27 pounds of armor I have seen survive a shot...or 47 pounds of armor I know nothing about...hmmm.
Fourth: Accountibility of post-testing...sure, someone dropped the ball...but that does not mean that the right item is not in place for the mission, nor does it mean that someone is deliberately trying to screw the taxpayer
    having said these things...I still admit it is Washington and there is no distinct logic in many things...i.e. pay unwed jobless women to have more children...?

The article doesn't address the story NBC ran several months ago about the claims by the Army that the "Dragonskin" brand of body armor used by many GI's didn't meet its standards, and that soldiers found wearing it would be disciplined.

"Dragonskin's" CEO said that he would submit his product to any independent test (read: those NOT conducted by the Army procurement personnel who now appear to have a career-interest in "proving" that the favored body armor suppliers product is superior) as to its worthiness.  

WHAT HAS BECOME OF THESE TESTS?

its a shame how american parents are losing there children to war over nothing.How can the government send those kids out unprepared to fight their war for oil.As a parent of 3 sons in their 20,s i worry about things just like this becuase i dont want one of my sons dying FOR THEM.It seems that it is so easy to declare war when you dont have to fight and your children will not be involved.

Anti-war,anti-President Bush, most of you commenters do not know $#!# from Shinola!Listen to the guys that know; the soldiers that use Dragon Skin, the HERO'S. They know it is good. So shut up and get life!!
Tom Wick,CPO, USN, retired. Powder Springs, GA

Chris in Indianapolis: Sir, I support dancing around baloney paper trails to get the stuff out there for men and women serving our country.  Paper pushing imbeciles who sit safe and secure back home seem to lack the urgency that should be shown for those who are on the frontlines.  All the cries about whether or not the armor that went out was better than this or that are irrelevant; whatever armor went out is infinitely more protective than the fatigues and flak jackets the troops might have donned.

As for the comment about protecting "Bush's oil", please check your information and see that WE are still spending billions and getting nada while Iraq is padding their bank accounts and selling oil like crazy to China which cannot get enough.

the soldiers that actually use the stuff seem to have left very favorable comments regarding the current armors effectiveness.  

I have read news reports that the insurgents in iraq aim for the face as this is the area that is unprotected.  they seem to be frustrated by the protection afforded to our forces.

any armor that can stop a rifle round sometimes twice is about as effective as you can get without personal tanks.

At least they have this and the kevlar helmets.  many of my armed forces friends who have been there have nothing but praise for their protective gear.

Folks should be following Soldiers for the Truth, sftt.org, since they have been covering this issue for several years.
" At a time of increasing threats to America's Grunts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and as we start the sixth year of the Iraq war, there is yet more empirical data that our frontline troops are wearing inferior body armor that is falsely advertised as the "best in the world," and that is demonstrably incapable of meeting the US Army's own performance standards.

The latest proof came on February 20 [2008] when the Aberdeen Test Center hosted a demonstration test for contractors bidding on the Army's May 25, 2007 Request For Proposal for the highest level of personal protective body armor.

The first shot -- roughly equivalent to a standard AK-47 round -- hit one and a half inches from the lower-left corner of the Army's current "best" plate. This plate should easily defeat AK-47 Armored Piercing rounds, but this lower performing AK-47 bullet knocked a three-inch "chunk" (a corner segment) loose from the Army's best plate, and was almost a complete penetration. Fragments of the plate did impact and penetrate into the clay to the side of Interceptor Body Army vest's front plate. "

This is very simple so pay attention. These are men and womens LIVES at stake. Their protection should be TOP OF THE LINE. They're protecting all of YOU. What would YOU want to be wearing if you were in their places? Armor that is questionable in any form or the best of the best?

The end.

If you have never served, never worn Interceptor Body Armor (IBA), or just want to spew ignorant liberal rhetoric, go find a more appropriate forum.  I personally know many a good Soldier that owe their life to the IBA and it's rapid fielding.

From everything that I've read over the last few years, it appears that, yes, Interceptor armor is better than nothing, but Dragon Skin is better than Interceptor. We'll never know how many service members died due to inferior body armor. The problem is that the procurement system is corrupt, a Col. Norwood from the army, who oversaw the original Dragon Skin testing is now a multi-millionaire VP working for the body armor company that Dragonskin was competing against. Now, we have a chance to correct what appears to be at the very least a perception problem. Testing done independently(with everyone present to observe) can determine which is the best. this will restore confidence in the system.

I am currently in Iraq fighting this war.  I can tell you straight up that the Body Armor that we wear does its job.  I know several soldiers that would have been killed or seriously injured if not for the body armor doing its job.
It is also correct that the enemy TTPs have changed from the start of this war.  Instead of shooting Soldiers in the torso they do aim for above the shoulder shots and Snipers go for femoral artery shots when able.

This type of waste, and similar earmarked contract appointments, is mind boggling both in scope and audacity. At every point along the procedural conveyorbelt, someone either failed to object, or did, and was squelched. From $25 paper plates to $3.92 billion untested armor, the misspent money in the military alone is a disgrace.

First of all, this war has nothing to do with oil.  It has everything to do with the Bush's,
Cheney's, and their cronies large holdings of a little know company called Halliburton - of whom Cheney sat on their board for several years before his terms as vice.  Look it up.  Let's see, you own a large interest in the largest defense contractor in history - so how do you make this company profitable - You start a war!
How do you keep this company profitable - You stay the course!  People, we have had the wool pulled over our eyes.  Bush has one and only one agenda - make as much money as possible in the time he has left.  He is the most vile, corrupt excuse for leadership this nation has ever had, and those who are close to him are one in the same.  That being said, it doesn't matter who produces the best body armor - it's Bush's buddies company that will get the contract.  Last time, this time, and every time.  He should be impeached, tried, and spend the rest of his days in a cell at Gitmo.  Due to his actions, 4000 brave soldiers have laid down their lives - so he can line his pockets.  A few hundred years ago, a commander in chief led his troops onto the battlefield and that took courage, determination, and love and respect for those who serve under you.  This coward, this poor excuse for a leader, this charlatan, couldn't lead a troop of boy scouts on a weekend fishing trip, never the less, lead our brave souls in uniform.  The truly sad thing is that it is my fault.  It is your fault.  It is all of our faults that our troops are dying, because we have all just sat back and watched as Bush has turned a great nation into a bleak shadow of it's former glory.  Someone should have stopped this madness long ago.  He has stripped us of our privacy, our rights, and our souls - all in the farce of protecting us.  WAKE UP PEOPLE!  15 of the 19 confirmed terrorists that played a part in 9/11 were from the United Arab Emirates and/or Saudia Arabia - not Iraq! not Afghanistan!
Let me put this in perspective - this would be like the U.S.A being invaded by Mexico, and we in turn attack Canada.  What is wrong with people today, that they can no longer recognize!  We desperately need a new start in the government of this country - we don't need a new face in Washington - that will continue to strip away American values and rights - we need a new a brand new government that serves it's people and is afraid of failing it's citizen's - not the other way around!  Don't be fooled - we are no longer a free nation - we are the most heavily policed society on the planet - with big brother watching our every move - we now have the largest percentage of jailed citizens than any other country on Earth  We've removed God from our government, our schools, and our lives and we wonder why this country is falling on it's face.  The day's of bowing down to the minorities have got to stop.  I don't give a damn if an atheist is offended by my comments or not.  This country was founded by brave men who feared, loved, and respected God Almighty, and their fellow man.  I am sick to my bones of the liberal, feel good, do what you want to, it's the government's job to protect us, excuses that have weakened this nation to it's core.  It is time for the God fearing, moral, just, fair, and brave to take a stand and say enough is enough!  Please take a stand if you agree with me.  We are in the most dire times since the founding of our nation and we will not be around for another 100 years if we don't act quickly and decisively and finally, do the right thing.  Put God back in government, back in school, back in our hearts, and I promise
if we do this, we will see this country become great again.  We don't need another politician at the helm - we need a leader!  I pray for all of us.  Please do the same!