More students from Islamic nations allowed in U.S.

Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 4:19 PM ET
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By Robert Windrem and Garrett Haake, NBC News

The State Department has been steadily increasing the number of visas granted to students and visitors from three Islamic nations -nations with connections to the Sept. 11 attacks and to al-Qaida, according to an NBC News survey of U.S. visa data.

Many counterterrorism experts welcome the increase in visas to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan, arguing that exposure to American culture outweighs any possible risk from prospective terrorists.

“Given the fact we have things like biometric data, and more robust efforts around the world to track people of concern, it’s better we take the calculated risk to encourage the elite in these countries to come here,” said Bob Grenier, former head of the CIA’s Counter Terrorism Center. “There is a ripple effect in reaching those people we want to reach in those countries.”

NBC examined temporary and student visas granted to citizens of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan from 2000 through 2007. Saudi Arabia is Osama Bin Laden’s home country, while Egypt is the home country of his deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri.  Both men are now believed to be hiding inside Pakistan. Saudis also made up 15 of the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11. 

Overall, the three countries received 134,015 visas in 2000, before dipping to 34,781 in 2003, the lowest year in recent memory. Since then, the numbers have risen dramatically, to 109,878 last year, the first year of 100,000 or more visas since 2001. Those numbers represent an 18 percent drop from the peak year of 2000, but a near tripling since 2003. 

The decreases, however, are uneven, with Pakistan down 48.5%, Saudi Arabia down 34.4% and Egypt down the least, at 20.2%.  

A State Department spokesman agreed that some of the rapid decline after Sept. 11 was the result of increased security measures, but said the visas are granted on an individual basis.

“The numbers are proof of the success of the U.S. government’s efforts to reverse the drop in student and other visa applications after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001,” said Cy Ferenchak, a spokesman for the State Department’s Bureau of Consular Affairs.

“Individual visa issuances are not related to our bilateral relationship with another country.  Every visa application is adjudicated individually on its own merits.  The Department of State can only process visa applications from those who apply. The number of visa issuances went up in Saudi Arabia because of an increase in the number of scholarships provided to their students by the Saudi Government,” he said.

Indeed, more educational visas were issued to Saudi nationals in 2007 than were issued in 2000.  Last year, 6,030 students were granted visas, compared to 4,518 in 2000, for a 33% increase.

Officials in the three countries are particularly sensitive about the educational visas. The reason: The elite in each of those countries-usually the most pro-American segment of society-want their children educated in U.S. colleges and universities.

“The elite in Pakistan all want their children to go to Harvard or Stanford,” said a Pakistani official. “And if they don’t get into Harvard or Stanford, they get upset with America.”

In fact, State Department data show that the number of student visas granted Pakistanis have dropped precipitously, from 4,321 in 2001 to 2,218 last year. 

A Saudi official agreed that they have increased scholarship aid to students so that a larger number can apply for U.S. visas. The Saudi official argued that the large numbers of Saudi students in U.S. colleges and universities improves U.S.-Saudi relations. He noted that many members of the middle and upper ranks of the Saudi counterterrorism agency were educated in the U.S. 

There are other issues, however, suggested Grenier, that have to be dealt with if the U.S. is going to win friends and influence people in those nations.

“I’d like to know the waiting time for some of those visa applications,” said Grenier, who was CIA Station Chief in Islamabad, Pakistan after Sept. 11. “The waiting time went way up, and the schools were not adapting. Students would still be waiting for visas when school began.  No wonder the applications went down.”

Grenier also noted that many of the elite in countries like Pakistan feel “humiliated” by the secondary inspections they get on arrival in the United States. “The impact of that is significant for people wanting to travel to the U.S.,” Grenier said.

Roger Cressey was deputy director of the National Security Council’s counterterrorism office in the Clinton and Bush administrations, and is now an NBC News consultant. He said in general he believes the U.S. is best served by openness to Islamic nations.

“In the 1990s we threw all sorts of sanctions against Pakistan,” recalled Cressey. A broad spectrum of Pakistani military officers was not educated in the US and did not get exposure to US culture. As a result, they are not as likely to be as pro-Western in orientation as previous generations of Pakistani officers were.”

“The same principle holds true for Arabs and Muslim,” Cressey said. “On the whole, it benefits us greatly.” 
 
--Garrett Haake is a researcher at NBC Nightly News in New York.

Comments

Way to go GW,now we will have terrorists coming into our country as students/tourists..I thought we were supposed to fight these fools in their country n not ours...Being and Asian American I cannot undestand how stupid our so called leaders can be..This is the real world and we just cannot afford to trust these evil people anymore...I guess by doing this the govt could now justify domestic spying on its law abiding citizens..Looks like we are inviting these blood thirsty animals to attack us on our own soil...When r u folks going to wake up..
Where are the ones from Iran and Syria, you know the countries not involved in 2001.
Last year Harvard received 22,955 applications for its incoming freshman class of 1,662. I believe many american students of merit ( at least 20,000)were not accepted, just so we could provided space for the children of the "elites" of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia in these american universities. I feel that if and until all american students of merit whom have applied to these universities have been addmitted, there should be no addmission of students from other countries.
Most of the terrorists today are people who have lived in the west. Some were educated in the west. And those who sponsor them have children in colleges in the west particularly Europe. Lets not deceive ourselves into thinking we have an antidote in our western culture to cure these people of their murderous ideologies.
Hi,
  My wife is presently applying for a visa to the US.  After the necessary paperwork was filled out by a lawyer and mailed to the US Immigtration service, it took 4 months before a tracking number was assigned.  Then I was informed that it would be another 18 months before the application could be reviewed.  If all the paper work is approved, then a background investigation will be conducted and my wife will be interviewed by the US embassy in her country.  I have been informed that if I'm not present for this interview, she would not be approved.  After this, she then has to undergo a medical screening and a series of vacinations.
    All the above has to be conducted and approved prior to her coming to the US.  If she wants to work while she is in the US, she then has to apply for a social security number and a green card.  The green card will take another year or so for approval.
    The cost for the visa, the lawyer and the associated interviews and medical screening will be in excess of $6,000.00.  The time involved will be over 2 years, if the original paperwork is approved, many more years if changes have to be made.
    For me to get a visa to her country, it cost about $300.00.  This includes; medical screening, criminal background check, a financial statment and filling out a few short forms.  The processing time at the embassy generally takes 3 working days for a 12 month non working visa to be issued.
  The processing time for the different visas to the US can be seen @ www.uscis.gov      
     
I agree completely with this policy.  While an exhaustive background check on all applicants is essential, more such visas should be granted to encourage greater understanding between our cultures.
I know of foreign students who had to return to their homelands as their student visa's applied for did not come through prior to current visa status expiring. Turkey was one of those countries. We are allied with Turkey.
The so called "elite" of Pakistan comprises of hardly, HARDLY, 5% of its population, and they are so far removed from the lifestyles of the lower classes that whatever trickle down effect the US Govt can hope to achieve would be minimal at best and at its worse nonexistent. 80% of the people i know are in the West or getting western style education and 70% of those are totally out of touch with ground realities in Pakistan and have had a complete loss of identity, even living within the country.

Catering to the elite is USELESS. If there's anything the US Foreign Policy regarding Pakistan SHOULD be aiming towards it eliminating the landholding (feudal) culture that exists in this country, proponents of which have destroyed civil liberties and authority into a uniformed mockery of what it should be.

This country needs social reforms before any political or religious upheaval can take place. With social injustice rampant in every nook and cranny of this land you can't expect anyone to put any thought towards politics or religion (two of the main areas of contention) because their basic needs are utterly uncattered for.
Interesting article.  I agree that the continuing effort to have opportunities for people around the world to understand us (the good and the bad) is to allow applicants to come and further their education.  Hopefully this is done in a manner that makes it possible and perhaps we could even think about offering scholarships to people in these countries who are not among the elite as its the poor and members of the lower socio-economic strata who are converted to radicalism, and with good reason.
You have got to be kidding me, you want these extremist in our nation.  Just because they are of the elite, how do we know once they get here they really are not here for the one purpose of getting great academics!  No way......
Excellent investigation. We need more such reporting. Hopefully the state dept will continue to issue more visas to more than just the 3 countries mentioned here. Xenophobia is not the answer. It only makes things worse. Cressey and Grenier comments are right on.
I think some of the other Islamic nations also need to be look at (ex. Indonesia, the largest Islamic nation). I believe they were also effected, my sister-in law was told when she applied for a student visa at the US Embassy, why get a degree in the US when you can get one in there(Indonesia) and was turned down.
Increasing the number of timely student visas for citizens of other "third world" countries, including predominantly Islamic nations, is a much better way of spreading the principles and values of democracy than is war.
While the US is not racist it should still seek to limit those visiting here who also have fundamental religious intolerances as well as a propensity to commit human rights violations while either here or abroad. That includes placing women in servitude or a lower status than a man either of which is a fundamental cause of terrorist actions and resentment of western culture.
I read this article and from my personal experience please let me point out something.

I lived in the US for 12+ years in legal status and am US educated and have worked on an H1B for 7+ years.
I returned to Pakistan for personal reasons and after spending an year applied for a visit visa to the US.

I was denied a visit visa despite 12 years of positive American credibility. The truth of the matter is that there is no proper process in place that will determine who qualifies or not. People applying for a visa have 300 seconds to state their case and the visa counselor has to make a call. The decision has already been made prior to the person appearing at the window. It was very obvious and not just my perception.

One thing i definately recommend the state department should do is to streamline this process further by only processing 100 cases per week. That way candidates will incure a longer wait time but they will be given a fair chance to state and have their case examined in dept.

My 2 cents ;)
 
I would like my grandchildren to be able to go to Harvard or Stanford, but unfortunately, their parents are only hard working middle class Americans and cannot afford to send them to these elite colleges. Alice Ortiz, Calabash, NC
THIS IS JUST A SMOKESCREEN TO LET BIG BUSINESS CONTINUE TO PUT THE COUNTRY AT RISK LETTING TERRORIST INTO OUR COUNTRY SO THEY  CAN HAVE CHEAP LABOR AND FOREIGN MARKETS
This is good policy. We can only win the so-called war against Islamic radicalism by strenthening the moderate, enlightened forces within their societes.  There will a cost to us as we have already seen however we must not demur.
Wow...the Saudi's feel "humiliated" by secondary screenings. How ironic is that? Anyone who requests entry into the United States who is not a citizen of the country should be more than willing to undergo a secondary screening. Gee, most of our own citizens will undergo secondary screening just to board a domestic flight. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in, post 9/11. If you don't like it, don't bother.
as a pakistani muslim living in saudi arabia , i find the writer well informed and the essay well balanced. dr najaf saudi arabia
The fact remains 9/11 occured during a time the US was most liberal with visas. By what logic does the State department think loosening restrictions will lessen the risk?
   
   Havent we learned ANYTHING? THEY WILL NEVER BE TRUE FRIENDS,  EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN FIRST, DO WE NEED THEIR MONEY THAT BAD, BAD ENOUGH WE NEED THEIR OIL. THEY ARE EXTREMELY PATIENT.IF WE CONTINUE ON THIS PATH,WE ARE LOST,WE MIGHT AS WELL SURRENDER,WE ARE SURENDERING. WAKE UP AMERICA.
So they are "upset" if we don't give them what "they" want?  Apparently the security of our nation is irrelevant to many of these Arab Muslims.  Actually they all sound like spoilt rotten little brats.  If they don't get it their way they throw temper tantrums.  Only the tantrums result in the deaths of innocents (Westerners, Israelis, their own Arab populace, etc).

But on the other hand, why be so strict with travel security when our own borders have not been secured since 9/11 and there are numerous known terrorist cells (Al Queada, Hezbollah, etc.) here in the US?  Terrorists aren't stupid, they're not going to arrive at JFK, they are going to gain access to the US through our weak open borders in the dark of night.

Sleep well tonite, Republican elitists want to spy on you and everyone else and Democrat elitists want to collaborate with and protect the Islamic terrorists.
If the United States wamts to have a positive impact on the perception of America in the Muslim countries, it must take a pro active role in creating a positive image in these countries. Overall the people in these countries have a lot of respect for everything American (except govt). To change you must find, recruit, train and expose the young generation to the American culture and thinking. What better avenue to accomplist this than to let the children of the elite, the future leaders of these countries to come here so we can mold their thinking in our way on our terms.

   I think we should grant NO student visas to terrorist countries.
Wow - we have really lost our minds on this one.  16 of the 19 Sept 11 hijackers were from Saudi and 2 were from Egypt some on student visa..... but hey let 'em all in right?  The thing that I find really ironic is that we're closing our borders to the north and south but welcoming those who have bombed us.  WAKE UP America - embrace your neighbors and recognize your enemies!
Sayyid Qutb also visited the west. He hated western liberalism so much that he went home to Egypt and wrote about overthrowing us in violent jihad. He was hanged in 1966. Some CIA spook might think it's good for us to have them here, but that is a risk assesment issue. I'd rather they not. We can give Visas and education to peoples who won't kill us out of religious duty.
I think there are both positives and negatives to this and it's something that probably deserves a little more public discussion and possibly even a vote in Congress before State just goes ahead and starts doing it.

Personally I think it's a good long term approach but is going to take a LONG time to get widespread recognition that America isn't the disgusting perverted version as represented by Hollywood.  Too bad Hollywood and the media won't do their part in showing the GOOD things America does and just focusing on phony "massacres" and "Koran flushings."
glad we are finally going in the rite direction the more friends we make the less places terrorist have to hide i hope the new president opens relations with iran
This is really smart!  Let's start allowing more potential terrorists from Muslim countries into the U.S. again.  The wealthy elite's children are not inclined to hate the United States.  Right, does anyone remember Osama?  This really says a lot about the idiots running the country!  They want to kick out the undocumented workers who are only here because they want to build a better life for themselves and their families,and they want to invite more Muslims from countries that hate us and could be a danger to our national security.  I'm sure the government will tell the public that the government can keep tabs on all these people but they never have been able to do so and never will.  It won't be long before we have another event like 9/11 or Oklahoma City.  The government will claim that these are merely students but I remember so called "students" who took over our embassy in Iran no so long ago.  Opening our doors to potential threats is not a wise idea!
Intresting, but if letting in people from some counties helps expose them to American ideas is good, how come then not letting people for some other counties is bad.  How if we are only letting in the rich, who are memebers of the ruling class, from non democratic counites, how come we do not let in the poor from democratic counties? Like say Iran- Like it or not they do have a democacy, not one like ours, but a lot more democratic that any of the other counties listed in the story.Maybe if a few of them saw Amercia first hand thigns could be a whole lot differant when they return home. Worked with the Soviet Union and China why not Iran and Cuba. And besides they did not send any hijackers here to blow up the Trade center, or steal billions from our grants to arm themselfs to fight a neigbor instead of using the funds to fight the common enemy of all counties.
More-- if the parents of the kids who are coming to study here did notmake changes to a more democratic society when they returned home from studing here years ago, why wold we expect there kids, who are a even more privilage life want to change there society to loss that privilage. The people on top here seem more intent on not only keeping there privialges tey now have, but obtaining more at the expese of others, so why would we expect the  kids of the privilaged upon there return to want to upset the apple cart that got them to where they are? Let them in, but donot have any ideas that they will be the ones who will want or lead any change becuase they have no reason to, at best they will be fair weather allies. If we want to see change to more democratic societies, lets get the middle class kids from these counties. except they will not to go home cause of the goverments of there home counites
Dear Mr. Windrem, So the biggest problem we have is we are making it inconvenient for foreigners to enter the country?  Stop for one moment and think aboutit. Maybe long term national security should be somewhat of a priority?
nobody in their clear mind would like to hurt another human being without a VALID reason... i believe in being to another person & i would get the same nice treatment...
Could it be that the powers at be that gain from any terrorist activity in the US are just trolling for more attacks so as to further their own agenda of increased control of the American people.
Along with a huge Open border which allows 100's of thousands of Illegal people to enter our country and now this...When are you all going to realize that 911 really was an inside job?  If it were real then our government would put our lives over profit.
America's kindness is going to kill us.
Reduce the price of a barrel of oil by 1 cent for every student visa granted.
Allowing these category of inhuman beings will add more woes to US on the whole. Whatever may be the glorious reason stated behind it. I don't understand how the State Department so easily forgot that all the brutal and blood thirsty animals involved in 09/11 doesn't know anything about technology, till they learned it from us and some them as students.  Its an excellent service which we offer those animals by providing the formal university education for attacking us.  Its really a serious issue and WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!
JC,
  I am sure you are to young to remember, but what you are asking for or suggesting sounds alot like the Japanese Interment in WWII. I served our country for 24 years and fought in Iraq. I know for a fact that not all Islamic people are terrorists. I do feel that we should have a robust application process even if it does take 18 months or longer.
The Mughal empire and the Ottoman empire did the same thing to allow Europeans into their nations when they were at the height of their power.  Look what happened to them.  History will only repeat itself... it always does.
Oh sweet Lord!!! Is our Government nuts???
The 9/11 terrorists were here in this country on student visas. They couldnt track them then. What is the difference now?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your terrorists"
I'm a Canadian and even I disagree with this. We are suffering under the same lack of Government intelligence in our country. Our Governments are too worried about being PC with NON-citizens than they are with protecting the citizens who elect them. Lets remember Bin Laden comes from a billionair family (i'm pretty sure that qualifies him as "ELITE") and he's the most wanted man in the world! We are secular capitalist societies here, they are RELIGIOUS societies over there, we are foolish to believe that these people will throw aside their fundamentalist beliefs because they are exposed to our way of life, our way of life is everything they HATE. as mentioned above this will do nothing to convince the non-elite majority over there as they resent the elite, this just adds to their resentment as they see it as "American interference and influence" when they have a pro-western elite. It gives the appearance of the US proping up "puppet governments" which will only lead to more hatred of us and further terrorist attacks.
But what do we know, we are just the poor dumb working class, what do we understand of world politics? oh wait, I forgot the Elite of our countries and our politicians children never see the front lines in the wars we fight. So what if we have to lose thousands of the working class in order to be politically correct and grease the money wheels for our own political elite.
To m joe, mal:
Sorry.  People are simply not reasonable.  They're greedy by nature.  If you have it, someone is going to want it.  If they have to hurt you to get it, too bad for you.  They have clear consciences, since no one taught them the differences between right and wrong.
The way to close the gap between elite and poor student coming here is to find enough school that can give scholoraship to poor kinds .Student from poor background dont get the opportunity due to the fact that when you go to the embassy the first thing the check is your ability to pay through your financial statement .
Many of us who have lived overseas know the key roles U.S. educated leaders play in foreign societies, sometimes in the governments of our allies, sometimes as the opposition to our enemies.  While the high price of a U.S. post-secondary education does generally restrict the composition of foreign students in the U.S. to those with means, there are scholarships, both U.S. government funded and others, that help diversify the group.  Students who do not end up with a better understanding of American culture and values are the exception, not the rule.  Besides the betterment of the foreign students, American students benefit from learning from their international classmates.  If America expects to continue leading the world, we need to do whatever we can to make sure we understand it.
Osama bin Laden was from a wealthy family, an elite. How did that work out?
Everyone is worried about student visas being approved and allowing Islamic men and women to attend our most prestigious colleges. We have tons of deserving students but of course we are a PC nation and thus we need Saudi oil so we will pimp ourselves out for good graces for the extreme elite of the house of Saud. But why worry about these rich kids coming from the Middle East bringing hate with them? There are countless Islamic communities within the US that freely give money to known terrorist groups. There are multiple reports where Islamic charities are forking over millions of US dollars to known groups like islamic-jihad, Hamas, Hezbullah, and AL Qadia. But unlike public groups denoucing extremist like the KKK, Aryan nation, and others, these charities are left alone. Who is the largest contributor of Islamic charities and new mosques being built in the United States? Saudi Arabia. Our $3.50 cents a gallon is not only paying for the extreme lifestyles of the thousands of Saudi "Royal Family" but we are paying for terrorist funding, and new Wahhabist Mosque to preach the good word of hate, jihad, and self scarifice to promote the justification that killing any "non-believer" is approved. How much longer will the US put up with this? If there was no oil in Saudi Arabia we wouldn't be so "understanding" of the short comings. Why should we limit the number of seats for American students for foriegn elite? The middle/lower class student that suffers. The American elite attend and those empty seats that are available are then taken by the foreign elite. No wonder why there hasn't been an "average" type American that has made it to the White House.
Sure let's open the door and allow thousands of students to attend our colleges. They are becoming the only ones who can afford a higher education. Our increase fuel prices will grant several hundred more Saudi Royal members and Middle Eastern elite a chance to come over and kick an American out. A visa to the US is like a free hall pass. Canada and Europe are already becoming the new mecca of Islamic masses. Free benefits and unemployment checks, what modern Jihadist wouldn't pass that up.  
When will those Idiots in Washington WAKEUP.  It's time we look out for our country and our people and quit worring about what the rest of the world thinks.  If they don't like what we
do ----- SO WHAT.  Remember what Teddy Rosevelt said ---"Speak softly and carry a Big Stick.


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Deep Background is NBC News’ investigative blog. It covers national security, terrorism, spies, Iraq, and politics, as well as government waste, fraud and abuse. It is edited by NBC News Senior Investigative Producer Jim Popkin.

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